415 replies to this topic

[ForceUser]

Khobai, on 04 March 2018 - 04:57 PM, said:

the polls indicated 75% of the players wanted 8v8

and only 25% didnt want it

it was less than 1/3rd that didnt want it, and certainly not the 50/50 PGI is claiming


competitive play is 8v8 (and for a good reason, its superior to 12v12, even comp players hate 12v12)

if russ wants MWO to be an esport it makes sense for quickplay to be 8v8 too

to help groom new competitive players

Look at the thread where people are literally having fits about FP being suspended for 2-4 weeks (not indefinitely, just 2-4 weeks) and this is a tiny part of the player base. You're in there pretty vocal as well.

Now tell me why it's OK to upset 25% of the player base permanently because you want 8v8 but when it comes to FP and the much smaller part of the fanbase that will be out of a game mode for only 2-4 weeks (not PERMANENTLY) it's such a huge issue?

That's the problem PGI is sitting with and they wont switch to 8v8 if more than 5 or 10% of the player base want to keep 12v12. PGI saw this months ago when the discussion started on the forums, it was 100% clear the community is devided. Maybe not 50/50 but anything more than 10/90 is a huge problem and not worth the loss in players. You can cry as much as you want about the facts but there they are.

Edited by ForceUser, 04 March 2018 - 10:47 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

Now tell me why it's OK to upset 25% of the player base permanently because you want 8v8 but when it comes to FP and the much smaller part of the fanbase that will be out of a game mode for only 2-4 weeks (not PERMANENTLY) it's such a huge issue?

because 8v8 is an improvement over 12v12 for 75% of people

while removing factionplay for 2-4 weeks is not an improvement for anyone. nobody benefits from that except for PGI.

so theyre not really the same thing

Edited by Khobai, 04 March 2018 - 10:55 PM.

[ForceUser]

Khobai, on 04 March 2018 - 10:54 PM, said:

because 8v8 is an improvement over 12v12 for 75% of people

while removing factionplay for 2-4 weeks is not an improvement for anyone. nobody benefits from that except for PGI.

so theyre not really the same thing

PGI knows the number of players, they know the wait times will become 10 times worse when solaris launches but it looks like they might keep FP up to prove what they were saying.

And you're right removing 12v12 permanently is not the same as disabling FP for only 2-4 weeks, the one is definitely not like the other but hay, it only matters what you want, not what 10k+ other people want right? They can go play something else right?

Edited by ForceUser, 04 March 2018 - 11:01 PM.

[Vellron2005]

Kageru Ikazuchi, on 02 March 2018 - 07:06 PM, said:

Per Russ in the Mar. 2nd production update on twitch, shifting Quick Play back from 12v12 to 8v8 didn't get enough response to warrant any development.

In the hours where the population is low, wait times in Quick Play group queue (sometimes in solo queue) are horrendous. Adjusting back to 8v8 would help alleviate this, right?

Discuss.

If you ask me, sure, 8vs8 right now does not have enough support..

But come Solaris, people will migrate to play that mode, and FP and QP wait times will skyrocket, and 8vs8 will suddenly get alot more support..

Just wait and see..

Edited by Vellron2005, 05 March 2018 - 12:08 AM.

[Imperius]

Edited by Imperius, 05 March 2018 - 01:06 AM.

[MrMadguy]

I would want 8vs8/12vs12 switch with all old 8vs8 maps returned for 8vs8 mode and all new crappy maps being 12vs12 only, so I would be able to permanently choice 8vs8 and get rid of new crappy maps forever.

[sycocys]

They won't do 8v8 for the same reason they originally wouldn't do Solaris - the number of game instances make it un-managable.

The player population dropped at which point one or the other was a possibility (necessity even?) so long as they could keep selling mechpacks, 8v8 wouldn't sell more mechpacks and Solaris will.

[MustrumRidcully]

That's sad. I was looking forward to that, I prefered 8v8 when we had it in Beta and never wanted to go to 12v12.


If they think the community is divided on that, they should ask if people would prefer to stay with 12v12.

[Imperius]

sycocys, on 05 March 2018 - 02:48 AM, said:

They won't do 8v8 for the same reason they originally wouldn't do Solaris - the number of game instances make it un-managable.

The player population dropped at which point one or the other was a possibility (necessity even?) so long as they could keep selling mechpacks, 8v8 wouldn't sell more mechpacks and Solaris will.

Well there is this news.

https://twitter.com/...9151960064?s=21

[DAYLEET]

Khobai, on 04 March 2018 - 10:54 PM, said:

because 8v8 is an improvement over 12v12 for 75% of people

Only 200 people voted. There was also 75%+ that voted against forcing game mode with voting and there was thousands of votes. See how it ended.

[Clownwarlord]

8V8 is almost needed at this point in time for quick play and even group cue at times. The reason for this has to do more with wait times AND!!! helps with PCs having less to resolve on screen. So could or should help fps (frames per second) because it will have less mechs the server and your pc will have to resolve. From 24 down to 16.

I am all for 8v8 in quick play and some hours of the day in group cue. Just leave FW for 12 v12 all the time

[Eirik Eriksson]

Why on earth would PGI take such a risk with the playbase at this stage? Especially, with the only remaining working and decently stable game mode. A change like this right now would to me display an unhealthy level of risktaking and perhaps even to the degree to be called a really poor mgmt.

[Clownwarlord]

Slow Speed, on 05 March 2018 - 08:18 AM, said:

Why on earth would PGI take such a risk with the playbase at this stage? Especially, with the only remaining working and decently stable game mode. A change like this right now would to me display an unhealthy level of risktaking and perhaps even to the degree to be called a really poor mgmt.

Why to help stabilize the player base. with less people in match a match maker system would work better as well.

[Eirik Eriksson]

Clownwarlord, on 05 March 2018 - 08:24 AM, said:

Why to help stabilize the player base. with less people in match a match maker system would work better as well.

Well, that wording "help stabilize the player base" gives me shivers, and the "less people in a match" there is an assuption that you would keep the whole playerbase even after the change.

I would not personally mind 8v8 but doing it now, as said, I think would be a big mistake.

[A1Ste4kSauce]

You guys know not everyone who plays MWO is on these forums. Also, one of the polls split the 12v12 crowd into voting for either a 12v12 or 8v8&12v12 matchmaker. That's like running two candidates for one political party, you are spiting the vote. Just these two reasons alone make these polls worthless, they don't represent the whole community. The people who are content are usually the quiet ones, the ones who may represent anywhere from 10% to whatever other number that like 12v12. PGI may have their heads up their asses with some things, but they also make some tough decisions (that piss people off) that end up being better for the game and community.

[WarHippy]

Khobai, on 02 March 2018 - 11:21 PM, said:

we had 8v8 before we ever had 12v12.

so its not like its theoretical. 8v8 had less snowballing. thats just a fact.

No it didn't. There was just as much snowballing back then as there is with 12v12. The only difference was time to kill and that had more to do with equipment and lack of clans than it had to do with 8v8. 8v8 was never this panacea of good game play people seem to think it was.

[Imperius]

A1Ste4kSauce, on 05 March 2018 - 08:35 AM, said:

You guys know not everyone who plays MWO is on these forums. Also, one of the polls split the 12v12 crowd into voting for either a 12v12 or 8v8&12v12 matchmaker. That's like running two candidates for one political party, you are spiting the vote. Just these two reasons alone make these polls worthless, they don't represent the whole community. The people who are content are usually the quiet ones, the ones who may represent anywhere from 10% to whatever other number that like 12v12. PGI may have their heads up their asses with some things, but they also make some tough decisions (that piss people off) that end up being better for the game and community.

Ok, if you believe that l, maybe as the voting metric we just add another bucket! Whichever bucket gets played the most wins. I bet you 8 v 8 wins. Oh but let's count in properly this time by number of players not number of matches.

Edited by Imperius, 05 March 2018 - 09:23 AM.

[WarHippy]

El Bandito, on 03 March 2018 - 01:46 AM, said:

Hah, what you call "boring", I call "tactical". There were less brain-dead deathball nascaring and more multi-pathing back when 8v8 was live--except on old Caustic. Even a tiny map like old Frozen City had the team split into three groups--something that completely went away when 12v12 arrived.

Deathballs happened back then just as they do now and switching back to 8v8 is going to be no different. In fact since old maps like old frozen city doesn't exist anymore so there is even less reason to believe 8v8 going to be the way it was.

El Bandito, on 03 March 2018 - 02:37 AM, said:

One reason you could multi-path was that 8 players couldn't effectively cover all the paths. That changed with the inclusion of 12v12 where they have wider field of fire. I still say 8v8 is definitely worth trying out in PTR, instead of just killing the idea outright.

I'm all for giving it a shot if for no other reason than to be able to point out how going to 8v8 fixed nothing that people were complaining about.

Khobai, on 03 March 2018 - 05:12 PM, said:

12v12 means less server shards than 8v8

thats the whole reason they went to 12v12 in the first place

nobody wanted it even back then. PGI forced it on us to lower their server costs.

More than just Mystere and myself wanted 12v12. Its almost like different people have different opinions and exist outside of a hive mind.

Andi Nagasia, on 03 March 2018 - 06:24 PM, said:

i personally would like to go back to 8v8 for Solo and Group Que,
it would offer more Variety to MWO,

That is a fine opinion to have, but how does it offer more variety?

Khobai, on 04 March 2018 - 03:48 AM, said:

no it was done to save money on server shards

theres less snowballing in 8v8 than 12v12. because better players can carry harder to prevent the snowballing.

but no matter how good you are in 12v12 you cant turn around the game if 6 noobs on your team get killed.

8v8 had just as much snowballing. In fact it probably had more since it is as you say easier to carry a team. If one player can kill half the enemy team alone you don't think that is going lead to snowballing? I hate to break it to you but having a Mcgral18 or two on a team is going to cause some serious snowballs in an 8v8 environment. The entire carry argument in my opinion is more of a con than pro for going back to 8v8. The game is supposed to be more of a team experience than a single player determines the outcome experience.

Khobai, on 04 March 2018 - 10:54 PM, said:

because 8v8 is an improvement over 12v12 for 75% of people

while removing factionplay for 2-4 weeks is not an improvement for anyone. nobody benefits from that except for PGI.

so theyre not really the same thing

Barely anyone has voted on that poll or any poll for awhile now. They are pretty meaningless. Even then I voted mixed but as I commented in that thread if forced to choose one or the other I would prefer 12v12.

Imperius, on 05 March 2018 - 01:05 AM, said:

Why would anyone try to convince you of anything? Anyone around for a little while is aware that there is no point is trying to discuss anything with you when you are on one of your holy crusades because you are entirely unreasonable. Not to mention given how anti-pvp you are I'm not sure why anyone should care about your opinion on this anyway.

[Scyther]

Personally I believe 8v8 is not a solution for anything other than variety and the potential to put older, smaller maps back into circulation, again for variety.

I would have 12v12 be the 'default' mode which you can't turn off... because if you can turn it off you are once again splitting the queues. 8v8 (and as I mentioned in an earlier thread, 4v4) should be options that you can turn on and off. This means all the 12v12 players are happy, the 8v8 players are more happy than they are now, and the 'need more maps, or old maps back' players are more happy than they are now.

This is a win-win solution that cannot fail to please more customers than are happy now. Of course, that means PGI will invent some metrics to say it is impossible, then find some way to change something else to drive away another 10% of players.

As for those who think stomps happened less, or 8v8 play was 'better', I remind you of 2013's

https://mwomercs.com...-what-happened/

Edited by MadBadger, 05 March 2018 - 09:59 AM.

[Imperius]

First comment talks about host rewind...

@Warhippy I’m glad you know me so well. If you understand that meme you’d know the change my mind is obviously heavy sarcasm. Once my mind is made up about something it doesn’t change. This isn’t a crusade because Russ already said he would put it up for vote.

Edited by Imperius, 05 March 2018 - 10:26 AM.