831 replies to this topic

[Brain Cancer]

Liam Wolf, on 06 June 2018 - 04:30 PM, said:

I played in Beta, guess which one was more fun to me?


Hint 12v12.

I did too. You wanna know when the not-fun multiplied?

12v12. Much like boating, flaws in the system become more glaring as the scale of MWO combat increased.

[The Lighthouse]

Less mechs => less damage => less TTK => more focus-firing => more deathballing => more lopsided matches like 8-0.

NO.

[Daurock]

Hard No.
Fewer people statistically leads to a greater chances of a steamroll, something the game should strive to avoid. Games that were 12/7 or 12/5 or would have a great chance of turning into 8/1steamrolls. That's not good.

[Wandering Wiseman]

Brain Cancer, on 06 June 2018 - 04:30 PM, said:

I don't play meta, but I still have to carry the guy "funbuilding" his flamer/MG Atlas. And 8v8 also means your funbuild is more likely to be fun-ctional for match purposes versus fun-damentally useless, simply because you can do less and still contribute meaningfully to the match.

12v12 is much more a push for the average player to go meta than 8v8.

Sorry but fun can still win most matches, so your point is lost on me and my fun building ways.

[Composite Armour]

Yes please.

The advantages of 8v8 far outweigh simply having 4 extra people on each team.

[jace merrow]

I feel like 8v8 isnt bad. But make it a different quick play choice.

[GROLSCH]

I vote yes just because of tighter matchmaking. Skill disparity in quick play matches has always been a big problem and it is steadily growing worse. Even though I'd rather play 12v12 in a perfect world, I believe that the skill disparity problem is too big of an issue.

Edited by GROLSCH, 06 June 2018 - 04:44 PM.

[Neo Satan]

Can we not have both?

[Liam Wolf]

Brain Cancer, on 06 June 2018 - 04:32 PM, said:

I did too. You wanna know when the not-fun multiplied?

12v12. Much like boating, flaws in the system become more glaring as the scale of MWO combat increased.

For you probably when you started losing more and now you think you will win more with 8v8 but that is unlikely.

[Tarrow]

This game is not easy on new players. I think going to 8s would make that worse. 8s would also make taking out unskilled mechs more brutal for even experienced players.

The "snowball" effect would probably set in faster with 8s, as each kill would carry more weight. There could be even fewer non-stomp matches.

DCs would occur at the same frequency as with 12s, but hurt much more.

I don't have a problem with 12s. It is the level of fun I'm accustomed to and I still throw time and sometimes money at the game. I'm just not sure the potential risks of such a major change outweigh the potential benefits.

[Dracol]

Dantiger, on 06 June 2018 - 04:17 PM, said:

..., you could run right through the entire enemy team and get on the other side without a single part exposed.

Um, sorry to spoil your point but this wasn't cause of 8v8. It was cause of poor hit reg and lower damage alphas.

My feelings, keep solo qp 12v12 (love the chaos) and change group qp to 8v8 to encourage the bigger groups to fight it out in FP.

[Safety Seth KGB]

You know this 8v8 just might be on to something here. It has my support!

[Doomfist]

. A switch to 8v8 will also impact on our ability to address other parts of the game such as Faction Play.


What why?

[ME-tan]

The Lighthouse, on 06 June 2018 - 04:34 PM, said:

Less mechs => less damage => less TTK => more focus-firing => more deathballing => more lopsided matches like 8-0.

NO.

Not to mention less c-bills and less xp for everyone.

[justcallme A S H]

Unit 86, on 06 June 2018 - 04:22 PM, said:

**** yes.
All the downsides of 8v8 are heavily outweighted by the fact that carrying 7 spuds is much more realistic than carrying 11 spuds. And so all the games where you get 8 kill, 8 kmdd, 8 solo kill and still lose are out of the way.

It's actually the opposite. In 12 v 12, your Tier 4 player that somehow made it into Tier 1 (Please fix PSR first)... Dies in the first 30 seconds, as we've all seen before.

It's now 11 v 12 and it is not unrecoverable at all.

People will say "oh but there is was more firepower on the field and mechs shootings in 12v12"...
But tell me, honestly, at what point are there ever firing lines of 12 mechs standing side by side actively firing at the same time? It just doesn't happen.

In 7 v 8 you suddenly have a much lower chance of being able to turn the game around as that first early kill or two are far more critical. Also one good player in YoloQ who can aim, has far more affect on a game than in 12 v 12.

GROLSCH, on 06 June 2018 - 04:43 PM, said:

I vote yes just because of tighter matchmaking. Skill disparity in quick play matches has always been a big problem and it is steadily growing worse. Even though I'd rather play 12v12 in a perfect world, I believe that the skill disparity problem is too big of an issue.

8 v 8 and better matches will only occurr if PSR is fixed, testing and known to be working - first.

If the PSR system continues to let Tier 4 level players climb to Tier 1, there is no chance match quality will improve. I actually have a very solid feeling it'll go backwards as I outlined above.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 06 June 2018 - 09:15 PM.

[Guile Votoms]

This just sounds like yet another of your bandaids to try and patch up the dwindling player base.

What this game needs is a complete overhaul and streamlining of all the needless bloat.

[Ilfi]

8 vs. 8 on old Forest Colony / Frozen City was arguably the best this game has ever been. I've missed it since the day it was removed.

8 vs. 8 gives us better matchmaking, shorter queue times, better influence on the match per player, and generally rewards more intelligent play. As for maps being "too big", they are insanely oversized right now even for 12 vs. 12 (When was the last time you saw an opponent in the first two minutes of Polar? Never happens.) so there's hardly any size efficiency left to protect in the first place.

This game is in dire need of a zero sum Tier system that's actually based on skill instead of time played, but in the meantime at least give us the 8 vs. 8 we once enjoyed way back in 2012. Babying bad players with 12 vs. 12 has done nothing good for this game.

Edited by Ilfi, 06 June 2018 - 05:02 PM.

[NocturnalBeast]

The game was much better when it was 8v8. There was less death-balling and more maneuvering. Also, framerates were more stable, even on lower-end PCs.

[D34DMetal]

Why cant we have quick play queues with 12v12 and 8v8?

[Gluten]

God no. Having a bad player or a DC will be an instant loss.

At least in 12v12 there's still a chance.