453 replies to this topic

[Brain Cancer]

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Under guardian ecm

Affected systems include Artemis IV, C3 and C3i Computer networks, and Narc Missile Beacons. A Guardian can jam a Beagle Active Probe (or its Clan equivalent), but the probe-equipped unit will be aware of the jamming. The Capellan Confederation expanded the utility of the Guardian even more with the introduction of Stealth Armor.[1] Contemporary guided missiles such as standard LRM or Streak SRMs are not affected by the Guardian suite and will be able to achieve hard lock as normal.[6]

Ironically, in MWO ECM hoses LRMs and Streaks equally.

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Under Angel ecm

Game RulesThe Angel ECM Suite represents a great advance in ECM technology from the standard Guardian model. Within its 6 hex radius of effect, the Angel suite completely blocks the following systems on enemy units: Artemis IV, Artemis V, Beagle Active Probes, Bloodhound Active Probes and their Clan equivalents, C3 Master Computers and C3 Slaves (normal, emergency, and boosted varieties, but not the Nova CEWS), Streak Missile Launchers and Narc missile beacons. Streak missiles may be fired at units affected by the device, but they function as standard missiles.[2]

Note, there is no option to "turn off" Streak capacity otherwise in tabletop. This is the only exception to the rule, and it's in there in part because they didn't want a weapon to be utterly neutralized by a Jesusbox+1 system.[/color]

Edited by Brain Cancer, 22 August 2018 - 05:09 PM.

[HammerMaster]

Brain Cancer, on 22 August 2018 - 05:08 PM, said:

Ironically, in MWO ECM hoses LRMs and Streaks equally.



Note, there is no option to "turn off" Streak capacity otherwise in tabletop. This is the only exception to the rule, and it's in there in part because they didn't want a weapon to be utterly neutralized by a Jesusbox+1 system.[/color]

This guy gets it.
NO WEAPON should be so fully and soundly shut down by a passive low investment item.

[Brain Cancer]

Sedmeister, on 22 August 2018 - 01:35 PM, said:

So, I'm liking the patch.

Some, maybe all LRM'rs will hang even further back whilst some may try moving forward to get their own locks.

Those moving forward and get smashed by direct fire weapons will hopefully be encouraged to diversify and bring direct fire weapons of their own and not rely on LRM's so much.

You realize this also hoses Streaks and ATMs, which are direct fire weapons? I really do so love the fact that my ATM Supernova now takes that extra 50% longer to be able to fire accurately. Or my Streak ACW.

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Those hanging back will be hunted down even more mercilessly, their "high scores" and poor win/loss ratios will lead to a frustration that a) drives them from the game or drives them to experiment with alternative builds or my hope c) drives them to interact with experienced players whom they can learn from.

Or they just leave, because there's nothing like deliberately hosing someone's choice in weapons to encourage them to play.

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So those saying this patch will only reinforce poor LRM antisocial behaviour, yes in the short term but hopefully no in the longer term.

Your lurmtaters are the ones that get no real impact at all. They're the ones that were hiding in the back anyway, only guess what?

They don't care, almost nothing changed other than the recent buffs. Given the lack of Artemis mattering, they're now better off than before since they never really bothered with the benefits of it to begin with. The net result is the worst kind of LRM play actually gets no stick applied, the people who got their own locks and backed it up with direct fire weapons (or just plain used direct fire missiles to begin with) who were the people using more than double digit IQ to play get the nerfbat.

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Also, the need for dedicated LRM players to have to hold a tighter lock gives them an opportunity to improve their ability to aim, therefore hopefully making the transition from LRM's to direct fire weapons less of a learning curve.

Sincerely,

A player who started out preferring LRM's, who got frustrated, joined a unit, got good advice and can now aim in a half decent fashion.

Ironically, the people who could actually aim and used lock-ons were the ones worst damaged by this.

Sincerely,

The guy who got good with his missile boats instead and actually has a career W/L and K/D above 1.0, even after messing around with trashbuilds for an entire season out of boredom before HBS Battletech came out.

[Tiy0s]

As a founder of MWO, I believe that this LRM nerf goes against what MWO stood for in closed beta. MechWarrior 2 and the lore surrounding the clan invasion taught us that the strongest thing in MechWarrior was the ability to fire from range with the ability of not being shot back. LRMs require an immense amount of skill of trying to balance sustained dps and not overheating. Not overheating is something that I struggle with, and I can nearly go a match on Polar with my Supernova A without overheating. I hope to achieve this goal by the end of the year.

By making this lock nerf live, LRMing becomes much harder due to me having to multitask of aiming AND keeping my heat down. This is much harder than people believe it be. I can't do it, not even 10D(my heroes) can do it. It does untold horrors upon streak boats. Those were our last defense against piranhas, who exist simply to destroy our LRM boats. We're already doing our best to not overheat and now MG lights come to kill us when we're defenseless.

Chris, the man who killed Gauss PPC, the most OP build in the game, you have always been a man of great reason. Please don't kill our LRM boats.

[Bud Crue]

Tiy0s, on 22 August 2018 - 05:36 PM, said:

As a founder of MWO, I believe that this LRM nerf goes against what MWO stood for in closed beta. MechWarrior 2 and the lore surrounding the clan invasion taught us that the strongest thing in MechWarrior was the ability to fire from range with the ability of not being shot back. LRMs require an immense amount of skill of trying to balance sustained dps and not overheating. Not overheating is something that I struggle with, and I can nearly go a match on Polar with my Supernova A without overheating. I hope to achieve this goal by the end of the year.
...

God damn it. Now I have to clean beer off of my keyboard.

[Thorqemada]

What i dont understand about the Lock On case is that it would be a great way to include Players of Age or Health that have no other usable Option to participate in the game.
Iff my Father (was almost 82yrs of age) would still be alive the Lock On changes would effectively be the Stopsign for him as past his 75 Birthday became slower and slower and unable to use other weapons than said lock on weapons.

Now you can mock and mourn about aiming skills and demand learning to aim but i initially hoped we could play more together as he was a big fan of the Lore and the Computergames and it was already hard enough as it were that times especially ECM killed him already pretty much off.

So yeah, it may no more matter bcs these Players my have left the game or even the world but fundamentally its uneccessary exclusion of a more and more relevant playerbase as the first Generation of Computergamers now becomes older and older.

A game should not exclude Players it could easily include bcs some Skillplay-Overlords feel annoyed!

Thats my philosopical view on that matter...

Edited by Thorqemada, 22 August 2018 - 06:07 PM.

[Chados]

Pelmeshek, on 22 August 2018 - 09:02 AM, said:

Git gud and take a narc. Problem solved.

Bennesto, on 22 August 2018 - 09:13 AM, said:

You really consider butchering a poor Jenner Hero with LRMs in the first place? Jesus...

LOLno. I did, however, consider Streak SRMs. Never assume. When you assume, you make an “ass” out of “u” but not “me.”

And Pelmeshek, reading is fundamental when it comes to patch notes, so you might want to pull out your no-doubt dogeared copy of “[Richard’s nickname starting with “D”] and Jane” and brush your fundamentals up. NARC just got nerfed.

Edited by Chados, 22 August 2018 - 06:59 PM.

[Kirito Kerenksy]

HammerMaster, on 22 August 2018 - 11:53 AM, said:

Under guardian ecm
Affected systems include Artemis IV, C3 and C3i Computer networks, and Narc Missile Beacons.

HammerMaster, on 22 August 2018 - 11:53 AM, said:

C3 and C3i Computer networks

Yep... you ever wonder why you can still lock on to someone with ECM (albeit it takes longer) when you have a direct line of sight but lose lock when you don't?
Ever since closed beta C3 was built into every mech, and if a little bit longer of a lock with direct fire is what you get to compensate for the free C3 with no tonnage attached, that's fine by me.

If you really like lore so much that you want everything to be stock, play Living Legends. If you want everything to be like Tabletop, play megamek (unless you actually like mechs more than tanks in which case I'm sorry)

[Kirito Kerenksy]

HammerMaster, on 22 August 2018 - 05:21 PM, said:

This guy gets it.
NO WEAPON should be so fully and soundly shut down by a passive low investment item.

(you um.... do know what BAP is right?)

[Brain Cancer]

Story Time, on 22 August 2018 - 07:41 PM, said:

Yep... you ever wonder why you can still lock on to someone with ECM (albeit it takes longer) when you have a direct line of sight but lose lock when you don't?
Ever since closed beta C3 was built into every mech, and if a little bit longer of a lock with direct fire is what you get to compensate for the free C3 with no tonnage attached, that's fine by me.

Maybe if you actually knew what a C3 system is in Battletech, you'd be right.

But you don't.

C3 networks in Battletech do much more than share locations, they actually allow you to fire as accurately at the effective range of whoever happens to be the best range in the network. If you could shoot from 1000m with the precision of someone who's standing 30m away, we'd all have C3 built in.

LRMs don't fire as if they magically gained six zillion velocity because that Flea is sitting behind their target at shiny metal buttocks-poking range, nor does anything else. Spotting a target for LRM fire takes nothing even close, as in tabletop a single friendly infantry trooper can call down all the rain you want, never mind another giant robot.

So please, don't even go there. LRMs in MWO are actually "dumber" than tabletop, as they require a constant lock to get to their target versus being fed target data and being able to track on their own. And given the ability for most weapons to do the equivalent of called shots, those are actually considerably smarter. Streaks are outright "dumb" by comparison, as in MWO they can't even shoot a shutdown target without close proximity and an active/beagle probe for good measure.

Story Time, on 22 August 2018 - 07:52 PM, said:

(you um.... do know what BAP is right?)

An extra 1.5 tons that shouldn't be needed to fire at targets covered by ECM?

Edited by Brain Cancer, 22 August 2018 - 08:05 PM.

[Lawrence Elsa]

MegaBopper, on 22 August 2018 - 11:40 AM, said:

It is not how good players are that is the cancer. It is the arrogance and toxicity that they seem to feel they have some right to spray all over everyone that doesn't fall in lock-step with their views.

Arrogance and toxicity? If you think "good players" are the ones guilty of that then oh boy have you not been looking.

And yet Kcom has never engaged in trash talk, but been told time and time again that they're elitist ********, 228 has a strict policy on it, and while I can't speak for units I've not been in, the people in EVIL I've seen, even when getting my *** kicked or kicking *** with them has been respectful.
As for the people we fight? Constant accusations of hacks, being told to get ********* by various farm animals, and even had people come to our Teamspeak and Twitch chat to trash talk when they lose or win a random round. Thanks to the name and shame rule you'll just have to take my word or the mods' word on it from the various emails and screenshots I've sent in relation to it.

Lastly, if you're upset because someone in Team Speak or their own twitch stream called you a Muppet or said your build was bad, that's your own damn fault. Even Twitch's ToS explicitly say not to use a stream to get an advantage in game or harass people in game.

EDIT *** hat and an action named after the city of Sodom are censored? really?

Edited by Lawrence Elsa, 22 August 2018 - 08:41 PM.

[Kirito Kerenksy]

Brain Cancer, on 22 August 2018 - 08:07 PM, said:

Maybe if you actually knew what a C3 system is in Battletech, you'd be right.

But you don't.

C3 networks in Battletech do much more than share locations, they actually allow you to fire as accurately at the effective range of whoever happens to be the best range in the network. If you could shoot from 1000m with the precision of someone who's standing 30m away, we'd all have C3 built in.

LRMs don't fire as if they magically gained six zillion velocity because that Flea is sitting behind their target at shiny metal buttocks-poking range, nor does anything else. Spotting a target for LRM fire takes nothing even close, as in tabletop a single friendly infantry trooper can call down all the rain you want, never mind another giant robot.

So please, don't even go there. LRMs in MWO are actually "dumber" than tabletop, as they require a constant lock to get to their target versus being fed target data and being able to track on their own. And given the ability for most weapons to do the equivalent of called shots, those are actually considerably smarter. Streaks are outright "dumb" by comparison, as in MWO they can't even shoot a shutdown target without close proximity and an active/beagle probe for good measure.

Don't know how C3 works eh? Tell that to my 200 ton tanks with 10 tubes of Arrow 4 homing ammo and oscouts with C3 master and tag. Trust me, if I wanted my aim to be determined by dice rolls I'd only play Megamek.

I find it funny you think that the people who play this game and don't want certain lore elements aren't Loretards. I bet it would blow your mind if I told you that at least 4 members of EmP play Tabletop and would probably wreck you at it, since I know for a fact I've been steamrolled a good number of times by them with things like tank spam, artillery, Aerospace Thunder Mine FASCAM, and weapons specialists with Clan Large Pulse that need a 2 or better to hit from max range.

We know just how BAD this game would be if we put lore into everything, we know that skill would be DEAD if we made this game require a point system, or had random hit requirements, or didn't make people WORK for their pinpoint accuracy.

Making LRMs delete enemy mechs without needing to expose for direct fire is not a fun game mechanic. Making Lasers do full damage to one component would make them better than ballistics in every way, and if we wanna be lore accurate, streaks still hit no matter what if you aquire lock, even to the point where host-state-rewind will let them pass through terrain on occasion, and quite frankly clan weapons would just be straight up better in every single way (range, heat, tonnage, accuracy at different ranges)

if you really want all of the above, dust off your Ral Partha miniatures.

Brain Cancer, on 22 August 2018 - 08:07 PM, said:

An extra 1.5 tons that shouldn't be needed to fire at targets covered by ECM?

it should be needed to counter ECM which costs 1.5 or 1 ton + nodes in the skill tree. Whats that, like a little bit of ammo to make sure you can one-shot a light mech?

[Lawrence Elsa]

Brain Cancer, on 22 August 2018 - 08:07 PM, said:

If you could shoot from 1000m with the precision of someone who's standing 30m away, we'd all have C3 built in.

You mean you can't?

[Tiy0s]

Lawrence Elsa, on 22 August 2018 - 08:48 PM, said:

You mean you can't?

Yeah I'm with Lawrence on that one. Learn to aim. Also make sure that you have a good mouse. That does wonders

[H I A S]

Tiy0s, on 22 August 2018 - 05:36 PM, said:

As a founder of MWO, I believe that this LRM nerf goes against what MWO stood for in closed beta. MechWarrior 2 and the lore surrounding the clan invasion taught us that the strongest thing in MechWarrior was the ability to fire from range with the ability of not being shot back. LRMs require an immense amount of skill of trying to balance sustained dps and not overheating. Not overheating is something that I struggle with, and I can nearly go a match on Polar with my Supernova A without overheating. I hope to achieve this goal by the end of the year.

By making this lock nerf live, LRMing becomes much harder due to me having to multitask of aiming AND keeping my heat down. This is much harder than people believe it be. I can't do it, not even 10D(my heroes) can do it. It does untold horrors upon streak boats. Those were our last defense against piranhas, who exist simply to destroy our LRM boats. We're already doing our best to not overheat and now MG lights come to kill us when we're defenseless.

Chris, the man who killed Gauss PPC, the most OP build in the game, you have always been a man of great reason. Please don't kill our LRM boats.

Best sarcasm i've ever read. Thx dude.

[mad kat]

Bennesto, on 22 August 2018 - 09:50 PM, said:

Well... LRM users can't aim and don't want to. That is the whole deal.

Has it occurred to you that a good chunk of them Lurm/ATM because they can't aim accurately for a reason. Like having woeful FPS (lets face it this game isn't exactly slick or a low resource user), laggy connection, Laptop player, small monitor, old machine etc maybe even having medical issues with nerve damage etc

They are out there i for one when rarely playing on the laptop find lock on mechanics a much easier way to contribute.

[Sneaky Ohgoorchik]

Hello. Streak King Crab pilot here. For all streak pilots i want to mention a hint:

Arm lock and free look is still strong. Lights are tasty.

Proud Lurmboats have it too.

[Lawrence Elsa]

ShooteyMcShooterson, on 22 August 2018 - 01:45 PM, said:

I tend to think that so long as there are very hard to kill stealth lights and MG boats that can take down any mech in seconds when wolf packed, then the game needs to have some of direct, hard counter to them.

Also, streaks and atms need to work, or why do they exist?

Do you think that nothing can hit light mechs except for streaks?

[vonJerg]

At the moment i think the major problem in MWO is lack of performance separation as everyone ended up in tier 1. I think the only true cure is to reset PSR, and within a week we will have tear separation again, the games will again become more enjoyable for all parties.

[Toxicresidue]

[Redacted]

Edited by Tina Benoit, 23 August 2018 - 05:05 PM.
insults, starting fights and disruption