1579 replies to this topic

[Brauer]

DAEDALOS513, on 05 May 2020 - 09:45 AM, said:

Baha, you seriously think it's worse than before as far as what mechs ppl bring to a match? Come on.. Play more than 10 matches before you decide if you dislike soup queue.. you'll find it's a vast improvement from the chaos the old solo queue brought.

I don't know what game you're playing, but I see just as much braindead Nascar as before. I made some simple calls last night for groups and those calls were ignored as often as in old solo queue. The only real difference is I can basically ensure my team wins almost every time by dropping with a few friends so even if the other 8-10 players on my team Nascar or do less than 300 damage it's still a W.

Out of 60 or so matches we've faced decent opposition maybe 5 times.

[DAEDALOS513]

Brauer, on 05 May 2020 - 10:02 AM, said:

I don't know what game you're playing, but I see just as much braindead Nascar as before. I made some simple calls last night for groups and those calls were ignored as often as in old solo queue. The only real difference is I can basically ensure my team wins almost every time by dropping with a few friends so even if the other 8-10 players on my team Nascar or do less than 300 damage it's still a W.

Out of 60 or so matches we've faced decent opposition maybe 5 times.

I'm playing the same game that countless others are enjoying and think is a vast improvement to solo queue hell. Solo queue was unplayable.. I could barely drop 3 or 4 times before I just threw my hands up.. now most of the time puggies will follow my orders.. and nascar is down to a minimum unless the strat calls for it..

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 05 May 2020 - 10:06 AM.

[Brauer]

DAEDALOS513, on 05 May 2020 - 10:04 AM, said:

I'm playing the same game that countless others are enjoying and think is a vast improvement to solo queue hell. Solo queue was unplayable.. I could barely drop 3 or 4 times before I just threw my hands up.. now most of the time puggies will follow my orders.. and nascar is down to a minimum unless the strat calls for it..

I played 9 matches last night and in at least 5 one or both teams nascared. It didn't matter if we called to hold a power position, all that really changed was we could camp our preferred spot and ensure a stomp.

[DAEDALOS513]

Brauer, on 05 May 2020 - 10:13 AM, said:

I played 9 matches last night and in at least 5 one or both teams nascared. It didn't matter if we called to hold a power position, all that really changed was we could camp our preferred spot and ensure a stomp.

Did you happen to go over the metrics that Russ released? What do they show? I don't have the energy to look at more numbers.. ever since home schooling started with my kids I don't need more 'studying' in my life..

[Brauer]

DAEDALOS513, on 05 May 2020 - 10:17 AM, said:

Did you happen to go over the metrics that Russ released? What do they show? I don't have the energy to look at more numbers.. ever since home schooling started with my kids I don't need more 'studying' in my life..

The metrics they released don't cover anything that approaches match quality or "Nascar laps completed". The tldr imo is that they can easily tweak the matchmaker to prioritize either low queue times, tonnage balance, or PSR balance. I'm still seeing big weight class disparaties. Last night we had a match where a team had 5 lights and we had none. So I don't know exactly how they have the matchmaker set right now.

[DAEDALOS513]

Brauer, on 05 May 2020 - 10:23 AM, said:

The metrics they released don't cover anything that approaches match quality or "Nascar laps completed". The tldr imo is that they can easily tweak the matchmaker to prioritize either low queue times, tonnage balance, or PSR balance. I'm still seeing big weight class disparaties. Last night we had a match where a team had 5 lights and we had none. So I don't know exactly how they have the matchmaker set right now.

I was hoping it would at least show stomp rates.. (ie 12:0 to 12:2 wins). I'm sure metrics change depending on time of day tho.. late night matches are probably more populated by tired, perhaps even inebriated players. Which is why one can't be a good judge unless they're dropping constantly all day and night.

They should add a 1 minute minimum search time to give MM a chance to do it's job.. even out tonnages, psr's, squeeze in as many groups as possible before using solo's.. (priorities for MM should be psr (ideally this metric should be based on how well you perform with the mech your in.. apparently this metric is available to PGI), then tonnage, then groups.. once the minute is up, drop us with whatever it's got..

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 05 May 2020 - 10:42 AM.

[G3 Heathen]

Other than the occasional berating from a upper crust player (for sucking)
So far I have been pleased. About 50/50 win losses and more competitive matches.

[Alzorath]

Larsh, on 04 May 2020 - 03:03 PM, said:

As posted from OP:
---


Here it is as it currently sits (current values for groups as it has been for a while):

2-player groups: Min Tonnage 40, Max Tonnage 200
3-player groups: Min Tonnage 80, Max Tonnage 255
4-player groups: Min Tonnage 120, Max Tonnage 280

Again, these numbers can be adjusted on the fly with no down time. If you have suggestions on some tonnage numbers, post them and we can try them out.

---
Pretty much input given from playerbase, and viewing how the test progresses, they will tweak the tonnage every week (or something like that). I think they even scaled down the tonnage from their original post. I would need to hunt for it. You would think they would have it on the front page where its easy to find!

They also need to see if they can match certain weight classes in certain drop zones on the maps. Since in the past, it seems PGI based drop zones for a weight class ( Cause Balance! ) . Now you have assualts dropping in Alpha when a map may have had its drop zone designed for light / medium mechs.

Except my comment was about TEAM tonnage, not group tonnage - group tonnage is kind of a worthless point - one TEAM shouldn't have 5-7 assaults while the other team has 1 (or in one case - NONE). If it was like 3-4 assaults vs 5-6 assaults, that would be fine(ish) - but that is not the case.

aka - not talking about the limits to join, but rather the matches where one team is fielding ~650 tons, while the other is fielding 850+ (it would be different if it was 2 pre-made teams of 12, but we're talking randos)

(worth noting, that my win rate is about where I'd expect it to be in a normal season, but the matches are far more one sided now, and I can almost predict it based on whether my team drops heavy or light - barring a few familiar names that I know are good enough to play as a team)

Edited by Alzorath, 05 May 2020 - 10:39 AM.

[Brauer]

DAEDALOS513, on 05 May 2020 - 10:29 AM, said:

I was hoping it would at least show stomp rates.. (ie 12:0 to 12:2 wins). I'm sure metrics change depending on time of day tho.. late night matches are probably more populated by tired, perhaps even inebriated players. Which is why one can't be a good judge unless they're dropping constantly all day and night.

They should add a 1 minute minimum search time to give MM a chance to do it's job.. even out tonnages, psr's, squeeze in as many groups as possible before using solo's.. (priorities for MM should be psr (ideally this metric should be based on how well you perform with the mech your in.. apparently this metric is available to PGI), then tonnage, then groups.. once the minute is up, drop us with whatever it's got..

They should definitely share some additional metrics. They've claimed "stomps are up 5%" and that they define stomps as 12-4 or worse, but they haven't said what they mean by up 5%, or what the baseline value was.

I've dropped in NA prime on weekends and weeknights, and during both AP and EU prime on weekends since the change. I think most of the matches where I felt there was a decent group on the opposite side were during NA prime, but even then it was a small share of total matches (less than 1 in ten).

Edited by Brauer, 05 May 2020 - 11:38 AM.

[Alreech]

50 50, on 04 May 2020 - 04:11 PM, said:

2. Consider the option to allow matches with smaller teams. I don't suggest a hard limit on the team maximum, but a dynamic team building based on numbers. Going to elaborate on this a bit.

Everything in the game is based around the lance of 4 players as part of the full company of 12 players for a team.
With the new limitation on group maximums of a lance, we should look at this as a building block to create the teams.
That is, if the match maker tries to create a game every minute (add a timer and queue count like there is in FW) then the system needs the flexibility to initially try and create a 12v12 match. If that is not possible it should be able to immediately attempt 8v8 or then 4v4. Can't even make a 4v4, well, wait 1 minute and try again.
There are several advantages in having this sort of flexibility but the simple objective is to get people playing as many games as possible as the more games you can play, the more you will play therefore encouraging greater participation overall.

No new idea, was suggested many times.
And i like it

[Alreech]

Anomalocaris, on 04 May 2020 - 09:59 AM, said:

Fair enough, but it still begs the question of why not improve what's wrong with solo queue instead of importing features from game modes that died?

A smart CEO would make sure what works is solid and then fix the other stuff. If my engine needs an oil change, I'm not going to pump half the oil from my broken transmission into the engine and hope that does the trick.

The problem of Solo Quickplay is the lack of coordination of a 12 player team on big maps.

Simple tactics like nascaring work on small maps with on choke point or one simple objective (domination) without much coordination.
That is the reason why map's like HPG Network & Mining Collective or Canyon get the mosts votes during map selection.

A smart CEO would improve coordination of the teams by reducing the team & map sizes to 8 vs 8 and small maps (also a popular suggestion).
Would you like that?

A smart Game Designer would use the tools that are yet in the game.
One thing could for example be a longer pre match phase to organize the lances and to vote for a commander.
Would you like that?
And would it work?

The best way to improve coordination would be dropping as pre-made lance, for example by promoting the looking for group function.
You certainly don't like that, right?

To make this work the group sizes should be reduced to the size of the tactical group in the match: the Lance of 4 players.

[Mal Bolge]

I miss the nascarring days of old, at least then people would stay together in a line, assaults would spawn in charlie lance, lights in alpha etc. Now its random all over the map, and most players just spread out to look for survivors. And then they die. At least nascar you could predict and form a strategy around.

[Thorqemada]

Horseman, on 05 May 2020 - 09:00 AM, said:

Jesus christ... like I said multiple times before, PGI has the means to track your "skill level" individually for each chassis or even individual mech you run
That way if you chose a mech you perform poorly with, the matchmaker would be able to account for that and not score your "value" as highly as it would if you instead picked a mech you perform exceedingly well with.
This isn't freaking rocket science, man.

Peace man - my text it is about what if PGI did so and what would be the expected outcome.

The whole process of diggin into the underlying problem is not there yet...

For example - are we People who still play, or at least lurk in the Forums the People who can give the answer?

What i mean, we know why the People that are still here stopped playing Groups - there is nobody to play with!
What we do not know is why the People left, that were going away from the game when games kicked of regularely in an acceptable timespan and the Group-Q had enough Players.

That Question is one part of solving the riddle!

And btw - nice Event PGI


PS: I should note that in an Equipment based MM no trashmech or trashequipment exists bcs it is balanced out by the MM - the only one who can be blamed then is the Player.

Edited by Thorqemada, 05 May 2020 - 12:41 PM.

[Scout Derek]

Nice tonnage balance.... not.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

Scout Derek, on 06 May 2020 - 12:02 AM, said:

Nice tonnage balance.... not.

Their surplus in tonnage didn't save them, don't you think?

[Ignatius Audene]

They importet the old group play mistakes. Tonnage doesn't matter. Tier doesn't matter...MM doesn't matter.

They just threw 24 people in a match and try to make sure, that both sides got an equal big (not skilled) premade. Mm finished.

Edited by Ignatius Audene, 06 May 2020 - 12:23 AM.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

Please check on the other pinned thread. https://mwomercs.com...overies-week-1/
Paul has been experimenting with some switches, as documented there.

[Scout Derek]

Aidan Crenshaw, on 06 May 2020 - 12:07 AM, said:

Their surplus in tonnage didn't save them, don't you think?

Nah, just potato teammates, is why they lost.

Our side

Their side

Sort by KD Ratio and you'll see who had worse teammates. And if you think surplus tonnage has anything to do with a loss, check this one from a few days ago;

Edited by Scout Derek, 06 May 2020 - 12:36 AM.

[Scout Derek]

Whoever has the better player carry power wins. It's not even group tonnage anymore, it's just whoever has the better stack wins.

Some people have been saying this constantly only for tonnage to be adjusted.

This mostly hurts the worse players, not the better ones. Better players will just take the usual and stomp, as usual.

Edited by Scout Derek, 06 May 2020 - 12:50 AM.

[Magic Pain Glove]

Scout Derek, on 06 May 2020 - 12:29 AM, said:

Nah, just potato teammates, is why they lost.

Our side

Their side

10% Percentile difference between the groups ....

And the guy who was 40% percentile did whooping 80 dmg . That said this is not even getting close to some of the matches I've seen so far .