130 replies to this topic

[dario03]

GoodTry, on 10 September 2021 - 04:30 PM, said:

I mean, TBF, if the more expensive stuff isn't better, why is it more expensive?

Lore I guess. Though if something was to change I would probably go with changing the cost of things instead of balancing by current cost. Though exactly how much I'm not sure. Should a weapons performance scale exactly with its cost? How exactly do we determine that?

Edited by dario03, 10 September 2021 - 04:58 PM.

[Nightbird]

Expensive might mean better by some metrics, but doesn't mean indestructible. IRL it costs 1 cent or less to destroy 1 $ of military hardware, regardless of what that hardware is.

Edited by Nightbird, 10 September 2021 - 05:44 PM.

[Monkey Lover]

Nightbird, on 09 September 2021 - 06:31 AM, said:

I dunno, you seem to run lights the least. Actions not words my friend.

I run lights the least because my group always wants ton down. I play In groups so I don't take what i want I take what is left lol. Im within 7% of assaults and lights . 100 ton assaults suck compared to a light for pug q. I stand by this.


Kdk3 needs help just like all 100 ton mechs. Fix match maker so tonnage is balanced and buff 100 ton Mechs. When I see Kdk3 I see paper armor easy kill.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 11 September 2021 - 02:48 PM.

[Black Caiman]

Monkey Lover, on 10 September 2021 - 10:12 PM, said:

When I see. Kdk3 I see paper armor easy kill.

In fairness I think this about MANY mechs. When I see Kit Foxes, Cougars, Hellbringers, Awesomes, Battlemasters, Blood Asps, Dire Wolves, etc, etc I think oh boy paper armor (or bad hit boxes).

[Verilligo]

GoodTry, on 10 September 2021 - 04:30 PM, said:

I mean, TBF, if the more expensive stuff isn't better, why is it more expensive?

Expense only has so much to do with quality. Some things are simply more expensive because that's the cost of making the thing and making it do the job in question. There are plenty of exotic weapons that perform extremely well that simply aren't made because there's more cost-effective ways of approaching the situation in the first place. Likewise, just because someone comes along with an expensive mech doesn't mean that mech will perform in line with that pricetag. Sometimes that's because there's a better, less expensive way of doing the job.

But most of the time it's because the pilot cannot achieve the performance demanded of their investment.

[Monkey Lover]

Black Caiman, on 11 September 2021 - 06:26 AM, said:

In fairness I think this about MANY mechs. When I see Kit Foxes, Cougars, Hellbringers, Awesomes, Battlemasters, Blood Asps, Dire Wolves, etc, etc I think oh boy paper armor (or bad hit boxes).

Guess this is true, maybe i am thinking of this wrong. Maybe there are less "good mechs" and more bad. If you compare the kdk3 to the battlemaster 3m/1d its kind of balanced...

Edited by Monkey Lover, 11 September 2021 - 02:39 PM.

[HauptmanT]

Verilligo, on 11 September 2021 - 11:56 AM, said:

Expense only has so much to do with quality. Some things are simply more expensive because that's the cost of making the thing and making it do the job in question. There are plenty of exotic weapons that perform extremely well that simply aren't made because there's more cost-effective ways of approaching the situation in the first place. Likewise, just because someone comes along with an expensive mech doesn't mean that mech will perform in line with that pricetag. Sometimes that's because there's a better, less expensive way of doing the job.

But most of the time it's because the pilot cannot achieve the performance demanded of their investment.

I just happened on the story of the old Witworth Black powder rifle.

See back in the 19th century, a man designed a better way to rifle a musket. He made the entire 'rifling' out of flat surfaces, because he could be more precise with it. What he did was a hexagonal twist, which required a hexagonal bullet (with the matching twist as well) that created a mechanical rifling and he ended up creating the most accurate rifle the world has ever seen. Even modern computer engineered rifles cannot compete with his design. This was an engineering marvel, that promptly went out of business, because to put it bluntly, it was too bloody expensive. Adjusted for inflation, his rifle in today's dollar, would have cost $12,000+.

So few of his rifles were sold (the confederate army did buy like 125 of them) that his little rifle company couldnt stay afloat, even though it was so highly prized, and still is today. Even a company who replicated it in more modern times couldnt make a profit with it, and stopped replicating them.

His black powder percussion cap muzzle loader is still the most accurate rifle ever made. But it's just too expensive to actually use.

Edited by HauptmanT, 11 September 2021 - 05:23 PM.

[John Bronco]

My friends,

We are getting off topic.

If you don't like 4xGauss KDK-3 sniping everywhere, and you don't like the insane buffs that both IS ERLL and C-ERLL have received over the last month, there is only one course of action.

D A T A should be removed from The Cauldron. As evidenced by this thread he has zero objectivity, and is completely out of touch with the playerbase.

D A T A needs to go, and until that happens The Cauldron will continue to lose credibility.

Edited by John Bronco, 12 September 2021 - 04:41 AM.

[w0qj]

a) +1 Yes to KDK-3(S) please!

b ) Alternatively:
https://mwomercs.com...uses-xp-bonuses

MWO can simply give an additional +20% CBills bonus to all Champions, and folks would buy it!
Actually a lot of Champion mechs are pretty good. I would personally buy almost all of the Champion mechs if it has +20% CBills bonus additional! BTW, there's the KDK-3(C) out there already.

Nightbird, on 09 September 2021 - 10:32 AM, said:

Speaking of a KDK-3, can we get an (S) variant pretty please?

Edited by w0qj, 12 September 2021 - 12:27 AM.

[justcallme A S H]

John Bronco, on 11 September 2021 - 11:49 PM, said:

D A TA should be removed from The Cauldron. As evidenced by this thread he has zero objectivity, and is completely out of touch with the playerbase.

D A T A needs to go, and until that happens The Cauldron will continue to lose credibility.

Yeah look DATA has his views.

Should that mean he gets kicked from Cauldron? Absolutely not.

The Cauldron does argue quite hard internally. The detail and level we dive into in many discussions is pretty intense and I think the larger player base perhaps at times does not appreciate it.

Thankfully we all know each other well, many of us have shared beers over the years at Mechcons etc. So while we do argue very hard and often there are some insanely aggro debates...

It is all for the betterment of the game in the overall sense and I hope people can perhaps appreciate that a little bit.

[justcallme A S H]

Oh and here was a game after half a bottle... I played 5 in total, average was around 600dmg.

[Gagis]

In case anyone is interested in the derailment:

The rifle HauptmanT described did exist and was so expensive it was not profitable to manufacture with the tooling available at the time and it was accurate by standards of the day too.

But better cheaper rifles and tools invented soon afterwards surpassed it easily and it is nowhere near the accuracy of a cheap $200 rifle Americans can buy in WalMart today. It was ahead of its time by like, a couple of decades at best, in mid- 1800s. A very cool piece of history and invention, but not magic.

Edited by Gagis, 12 September 2021 - 01:54 AM.

[Curccu]

HauptmanT, on 11 September 2021 - 05:04 PM, said:

His black powder percussion cap muzzle loader is still the most accurate rifle ever made. But it's just too expensive to actually use.

110% offtopic but have to call BS that any old black powder rifle would be most accurate rifle ever made, might have been most accurate rifle when it was made but will not beat modern firearms.

[Rkshz]

justcallme A S H, on 12 September 2021 - 01:40 AM, said:

Oh and here was a game after half a bottle... I played 5 in total, average was around 600dmg.

I would be ashamed to publish screenshot like this
don't you see a catastrophic balance advantage? do you think this is an objective indicator? omg

play solo on KDK3 then tell me how it is

I have been playing on different KDKs for the last two weeks, no matter how I spin, everything will always hit to the CT

[justcallme A S H]

Rkshz, on 12 September 2021 - 02:42 AM, said:

I would be ashamed to publish screenshot like this
don't you see a catastrophic balance advantage?

I mean I'm not. I am posting it for a bit of laugh and a chuckle - I am well aware it is cherry picked.

Either way if I can do that after a significant number of drinks - for the fun.


I will run it solo and see over the coming weeks what I can do with it.

[Bows3r]

The Kodiak 3 is in my opinion the strongest clan mid-range assault 'mech in the game. It has the highest pinpoint, highest mounts, and the very generous crit chance quirk it was given means its one weakness of losing weapons early was entirely negated. It suffers from none of the weaknesses of the existing clan Dakka assaults, no easily isolated components, not a single low mount, and excellent speed.

If there was a perfect assault 'mech in the game currently as it stands, the KDK-3 would be the closest thing to it. Perhaps its only minor flaw is its below average durability compared to other 100t assaults

Edited by Bows3r, 12 September 2021 - 06:49 AM.

[Gagis]

Am I hearing Kodiak challenge?

I think I am hearing Kodiak Challenge.

I'm in!

[Tarl Cabot]

Moldur, on 10 September 2021 - 02:11 PM, said:

The KDK-3 already got its nerf when they lowered the UAC-10 ghost heat cap solely because of it. Everything on top of it has been extra.

It actually made me chuckle to look at the difference in agility and turn stats between the Atlas and Kodiaks, then again looking at the KDK-3 specifically, as it has been beaten through the ground, strung up on a bridge as a warning to others.

Dont you mean non-existent ghost heat ?



Comment from another poster in that thread.

MischiefSC, on 16 July 2016 - 07:59 PM, said:

I run 2xac5, 2xac10. Let's me keep the xl400, also more ammo.

No ghost heat I can generally keep the rain going until 3 guns are jammed.

It's flat out clownshoes pants on head OP. It is nimble enough to hill hump better than most heavies.

You can also go 2xgauss, 2xerppc. It's the best poke mech and if you're even mediocre at it you'll destroy whoever wherever. 50pt ppfld, 10 pts spread. Two links to the center of almost anything.

All the KDKS were solid. The kdk3 was OP as holy ****.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 12 September 2021 - 07:06 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Rkshz, on 12 September 2021 - 02:42 AM, said:

I would be ashamed to publish screenshot like this
don't you see a catastrophic balance advantage? do you think this is an objective indicator? omg

play solo on KDK3 then tell me how it is

I have been playing on different KDKs for the last two weeks, no matter how I spin, everything will always hit to the CT

Not quite black and white comparison, in a group with other strong players it can often be harder to get damage in.

I personally don't think the Kodiak is in a bad spot. Definitely above average assault.

[1453 R]

It occurs to me that asking for medium 'Mech level agility for the KDK-3 is extra weird when the Mauler exists. The Mauler is a generally similar quad-dakka assault 'Mech...except all its dakka is mounted in its lovehandles, it's slower and less maneuverable than the Brodiak, and it's unable to benefit from the weight savings of a cXL to gain more tonnage for dakka.

Mauler's kinda sitting there going "Where's my medium 'Mech level mobility...q_q..."