108 replies to this topic

[cougurt]

KursedVixen, on 18 May 2024 - 06:47 PM, said:

Why are you inner sphere pilots too much of a coward to fight the REAL Clans?

I'm sure your answer is,because it's heavier, well that argument is BS.

That's like saying Univac is better than modern computers because it's heavier and bigger.

the game would have to be designed from the ground up with asymmetric balance in mind, otherwise you're just rendering IS mechs obsolete.

[Void Angel]

simon1812, on 18 May 2024 - 07:50 PM, said:

"Warhammer IIC
WHM-IIC-BL:
Increased Jump Jet initial thrust to 100% (from 10%)

Victor
All Variants:
Increased Jump Jet initial thrust to 100% (from 15%)
VTR-9B-Li (LGD):
Added 100% Jump Jet initial thrust
Added 15% Jump Jet burn time

Highlander IIC
All Variants:
Increased Jump Jet initial thrust to 100% (from 15%)"

-initial trust from 15% to 100%....but why? Is DFA gonna be a thing? That's the only reason I can think of.

I pulled out my Highlander when they did this for that chassis. It's a great quality of life improvement, and a minor buff. Since the poptart meta ended, the Highlander has felt like it was being winched up by a crane, rather than rising into the sky on wings of fire.

[JetPirate]

Dead Victor Chassis got better jumpjets, yay

[martian]

KursedVixen, on 18 May 2024 - 06:47 PM, said:

Why are you inner sphere pilots too much of a coward to fight the REAL Clans?

Have you ever actually played the tabletop BattleTech? Specifically, Inner Sphere versus Clan game from the Clan Invasion period?

[w0qj]

It's a great QoL JJ quirk buff for the Highlander IIC, to the point that I'm seriously considering acquiring the HGN-IIC(O), especially since I'm also interested in the HBK-IIC(O) also

HGN-IIC(O): 1xJJ would be sufficient after this JJ quirk buff! That's an extra 2ton + 1x Critical slot to work with. Happy problem
https://mwo.nav-alph...f138af_HGN-IICO

==>Especially if the upcoming 2024 Annual (Loyal) Rewards ask you to buy some form of Clan mech pack (and there are no new full scale Clan mech pack this year. The last one was Stone Rhino, and that was last year).

Void Angel, on 18 May 2024 - 08:02 PM, said:

I pulled out my Highlander when they did this for that chassis. It's a great quality of life improvement, and a minor buff. Since the poptart meta ended, the Highlander has felt like it was being winched up by a crane, rather than rising into the sky on wings of fire.

Edited by w0qj, 18 May 2024 - 10:42 PM.

[smokefield]

lot of mechs could use some changes to make them worth playing. i think the1st thing devs need to do, or even the community - is to pull out statistics data and see what chassis are at the bottom of the play time/played games. then go from there.

just random examples:

- lot if not all clan mechs with fixed standard structure but FF armour. Gargoyle, Executioner, Maddog - almost no one playes them anymore... even Nova, Hellbringer or Summoner could use it although you see them more often.
- weapon location changes on IS mechs:
--------left torso on Thunderbolts needs to have slots higher mounted, like the hero has on right.
--------cataphracts to get the ballistic raised a little, or get some more weapon slots like a second ballistic in the other torso
--------grasshoppers and blacknights need their torso weapopn location raised at shoulder level , not belly.
--------other mechs that could use weapon placement raised - zeus, highlander, banshee - bring back the original design!!

- for any mech with weapons on the arms - put the weapon on top of the arm or in middle. prioritize the top mounted location for multi slots.

Edited by smokefield, 19 May 2024 - 12:18 AM.

[Zodie]

TY for the patch that JJ buff on Victor, Highlander IIC and WHM-IIC-BL is awesome! We want more Solaris!

Edited by Zodie, 19 May 2024 - 04:34 AM.

[KursedVixen]

cougurt, on 18 May 2024 - 07:58 PM, said:

the game would have to be designed from the ground up with asymmetric balance in mind, otherwise you're just rendering IS mechs obsolete.

I'm only asking for the clan UAC5 to fire one pellet instead of 2. Nothing more nothing less.

smokefield, on 19 May 2024 - 12:16 AM, said:

lot of mechs could use some changes to make them worth playing. i think the1st thing devs need to do, or even the community - is to pull out statistics data and see what chassis are at the bottom of the play time/played games. then go from there.

just random examples:

- lot if not all clan mechs with fixed standard structure but FF armour. Gargoyle, Executioner, Maddog - almost no one playes them anymore... even Nova, Hellbringer or Summoner could use it although you see them more often.
- weapon location changes on IS mechs:
--------left torso on Thunderbolts needs to have slots higher mounted, like the hero has on right.
--------cataphracts to get the ballistic raised a little, or get some more weapon slots like a second ballistic in the other torso
--------grasshoppers and blacknights need their torso weapopn location raised at shoulder level , not belly.
--------other mechs that could use weapon placement raised - zeus, highlander, banshee - bring back the original design!!

- for any mech with weapons on the arms - put the weapon on top of the arm or in middle. prioritize the top mounted location for multi slots.

also for mechs that mount weapons primarily in the arms more arm armor.

Edited by KursedVixen, 19 May 2024 - 05:23 AM.

[simon1812]

smokefield, on 19 May 2024 - 12:16 AM, said:

lot of mechs could use some changes to make them worth playing. i think the1st thing devs need to do, or even the community - is to pull out statistics data and see what chassis are at the bottom of the play time/played games. then go from there.

just random examples:

- lot if not all clan mechs with fixed standard structure but FF armour. Gargoyle, Executioner, Maddog - almost no one playes them anymore... even Nova, Hellbringer or Summoner could use it although you see them more often.
- weapon location changes on IS mechs:
--------left torso on Thunderbolts needs to have slots higher mounted, like the hero has on right.
--------cataphracts to get the ballistic raised a little, or get some more weapon slots like a second ballistic in the other torso
--------grasshoppers and blacknights need their torso weapopn location raised at shoulder level , not belly.
--------other mechs that could use weapon placement raised - zeus, highlander, banshee - bring back the original design!!

- for any mech with weapons on the arms - put the weapon on top of the arm or in middle. prioritize the top mounted location for multi slots.

- nah those wont help, that will just cause another wave of unbalances, that will need to be addressed if not rolled back, better game design would fix some of those problems, which is the reason I would totally jump to a MWO2 if it ever happens. some of those mechs you mentioned? lore wise? they are supposed to fill a particular niche or function, they have advantages and crippling disadvantages, but players want their favorite mechs to become the be all and do all, in every possible situation, and that isn't gonna happen, nor it should.

PS

it would be cool if mechs could rise their arms like lore says they can.

[Niamad]

Quote

MECHWARRIOR ONLINE LEGENDS
MAY 2024 PATCH NOTES







Patch Date and Time - May 21st 2024 @ 10AM – 1PM PACIFIC
Version Number: v1.4.295.0

Size: TB

Blackhawk KU
BHKU-OB - Right Arm pod:

• Reduced Ballistic cooldown to -25% (from -30%)
  
• Added 10% Ballistic velocity

BHKU-OC - Left Arm pod:

• Reduced Ballistic cooldown to -25% (from -30%)
  
• Added 10% Ballistic velocity

Maybe we could get some new omnipods or Variants of the Blackhawk-KU because they need some AMS

and/or ECM Pods.

[Void Angel]

KursedVixen, on 19 May 2024 - 05:22 AM, said:

I'm only asking for the clan UAC5 to fire one pellet instead of 2. Nothing more nothing less.

Which would literally make it the same as the Inner Sphere, except heavier, lighter, smaller, and with a slight advantage in range. You are asking for the Clans to be overpowered - nothing more; nothing less. People know this - it's not your first time asking for an overpowered hammer to beat up Inner Sphere 'mechs with, after all - so they're responding to you on that basis.

[KursedVixen]

Void Angel, on 19 May 2024 - 07:04 AM, said:

Which would literally make it the same as the Inner Sphere, except heavier, lighter, smaller, and with a slight advantage in range. You are asking for the Clans to be overpowered - nothing more; nothing less. People know this - it's not your first time asking for an overpowered hammer to beat up Inner Sphere 'mechs with, after all - so they're responding to you on that basis.

Really because it seems to me like only Martian and you are responding like that... that's hardly 'they'
I don't see why giving clan a single bullet uac 5 is a problem I'm just talking about the uac5 not the 10 not the 20 nothing else

Show me one clan weapon besides lasers that do more pinpoint damage.

IS get's the heavy gauss which does 25 PINPOINT Damage

Heavy ppc 540 meters 15 damage pinpoint

Thunderbolt 5 damage with aimbot ct missile and 2.5 within 150 as much as a single ATM missile but the atm3 is the smallest you can get which fires 3 which do not all go for ct not to mention are absoutly useless within 0-59 meters , which means while the thunderbolt 5 can do damage to a light mech at 0 not true with ATMs. And don't give me the BS MOAR RANGE argument they Atm damage at max range is only 1.6 slightly better than LRM but they don't arc as well making them not an LRm replacement. If someone is out in the open long enough for atms to hit them at that range it's the pilots fault not the weapons fault.

Tell me why again does Inner sphere mechs get more armor??? again why do inner sphere get faster dps weapons?

Oh did i forget to mention the horrible crap that is the x-pulse?
https://mwo.nav-alph...uipment/weapons

Edited by KursedVixen, 19 May 2024 - 07:57 AM.

[martian]

KursedVixen, on 19 May 2024 - 07:44 AM, said:

Really because it seems to me like only Martian and you are responding like that... that's hardly 'they'

It is the right time to refresh your memory.

Do you remember your own thread with that ridiculously long name? So Why Is It Clan Stuff Is Almost Tt, But Is Stuff Is Much Colder But Higher Damage In Almost All Case

Yes, that was the thread when you disregarded cooldown, heat per ton, weight, size, velocity, duration (and I do not know what else), ignored all Clantech design advantages, and then concluded that poor, poor Clans need more firepower ...

Curccu disagreed with you: "You are comparing freakkin' 9 ton 4 slot weapon to 4 ton 3 slot weapon."

I disagreed and posted the accurate numbers

Baba Yogi disagreed with you: "You put this on MWO remotely close, all IS mechs will get obsolete over night."

Duke Falcon disagreed with you: "Why? Because otherwise noone may play IS and MWO would die."

foamysque disagreed with you: "Because Clan space magic is nonsense."

crazytimes disagreed with you: "Without even bothering to read anything- because balancing a first person shooter by 1980s turned based tabletop rules would be stupid and absolutely no fun."

Fookerton disagreed with you: "Every time I see the words "lore" and "tabletop mechanics" my eyes just glaze over. Come off it already."

ThreeStooges: "Remember when IS had ZERO quirks when clans drops? The game instantly became clan vs clan. IS mechs had no chance in hell."

ihlrath: "MWO isn't even close to a simulation of a simulation run on a generic simulator of BT or MW proper. It's stompy robots with the Mechwarrior name slapped on it to get the attention of us old BT fans."

Samziel: "MUH LORE IMMERSION (Makes for a really bad and unbalanced FPS)"

CFC Conky: "We don’t roll dice in MWO…"

sycocys: "From my recollection of playing MWO, the introduction of clans at near TT while IS was modeled around TT - it about destroyed the game and is the reason we have the goofy quirk system."

Storky: "Touching BT community from 2000s I always has been embarrased by people associating themselves with Clans and putting themselves above others"

The6thMessenger: "Because this ain't TT."

Ken Harkin: "Repeat after me, This is NOT tabletop. What works in tabletop with an entire mechvalue system does not work here where a ton is a ton, mech or clan."


... and you closed your own thread with another barefaced lie that just one screenshot disproved.

[smokefield]

simon1812, on 19 May 2024 - 06:17 AM, said:

..... lore wise? ..........

we are waaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyy past that.

i do think that these small changes will actually make some mechs viable. i dont have a preffered one, ergo i added a lot of different mechs that i think they need changes. and not even complicated ones...

the diversity will make the game more interesting.

[Void Angel]

KursedVixen, on 19 May 2024 - 07:44 AM, said:

Really because it seems to me like only Martian and you are responding like that... that's hardly 'they'

I'd think you'd have learned by not to just make things up when you argue with me by now, Vix. It's... disconcerting that you haven't. You literally just replied to Cogurt at the beginning of our discussion, and martian and I are hardly the only people pushing back against your diatribes.

Then you pivot over to a long laundry list of how the poor, poor Clanners are so disadvantaged because the Inner Sphere has a slight advantage in pinpoint damage. You make a bunch of shotgun claims, but the gist of it is that Clan weapons are somehow inferior because it's harder to get pinpoint damage - even though you can fit more guns with longer ranges than the Inner Sphere. This is silly, and the claim I challenged is silly, too: in no world is it fair or balanced to remove the only thing that is a partial downside to fielding a weapon that's 20% smaller, 22% lighter, and has slightly better range. You are looking at a weapon that is superior to its IS equivalent in nearly every way, and complaining about its one downside as though it's perfectly rational and fair to just give you the better gun because you want it.

Clantech and IS tech ares roughly balanced at present - but I'm going to have to rub your nose in some data, here. These are the latest Comp Mech Usage Numbers. They're listed by chassis, so the data doesn't give variants - but it does give chassis, and hooo boy, your claims about Clan victimhood do not match those numbers well. The Light weight class is dominated by the Mist Lynx (17.7%) and Firestarter(16.8), with the Flea coming in a distant third at 10.3% The Viper owns the Medium weight class at 22.3% usage, more than the next two chassis combined - one of which is the Shadow Cat. The Heavy weight class is the only outlier, with the Crusader rofflestomping everyone, and the next two most popular 'mechs are still Clan; the next-highest IS 'mech is the Catapult with 3.93% And topping it off with the Assault weight class, the Mad Cat Mk II and Executioner (13% &12%) are top dog, while the only IS Assault in heavy use is the Stalker (10%.) Fourth-used is again, you guessed it, a Clan chassis.

Now these numbers are not cherry picked from the best teams. They're pulled from the leaderboard and encompass anyone who played in the comp queue. And they refute your opinions. If Clantech was so underpowered, people would not prefer its use when the chips are down and they want to win. They wouldn't overwhelmingly prefer that tech base in competitive play.

So, while the tech is better balanced than it's ever been, balance is still slanted toward the Clans. It follows that no one takes your rants seriously - as you should have noticed for yourself.

Edited by Void Angel, 19 May 2024 - 10:31 AM.

[Void Angel]

PS: Vix... what's the damage per heat for the MXPL and CMPL? Are they the same? Yes they are! Is the Clan version getting more range next patch? Yes it is! Now, I could cherry pick this data point to go on an unhinged diatribe about supposed preferential treatment or I could notice that the CMPL's duration is longer than the MPL, and deduce that they're trying to standardize certain balance factors - like longer laser burns being balanced by better range. One of these courses of action is sane and rational; the other is neither.

[KursedVixen]

smokefield, on 19 May 2024 - 10:04 AM, said:

we are waaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyy past that.

i do think that these small changes will actually make some mechs viable. i dont have a preffered one, ergo i added a lot of different mechs that i think they need changes. and not even complicated ones...

the diversity will make the game more interesting.

i've been playing around with the gargoyles other than the D the prime and kin wolf go great with srms plasma cannon and ac2's but the b and c really need something for how little weapons they carry. i haven't tried the E yet gonna work on that one later maybe.

[martian]

KursedVixen, on 19 May 2024 - 07:44 AM, said:

I don't see why giving clan a single bullet uac 5 is a problem I'm just talking about the uac5 not the 10 not the 20 nothing else

Clan UAC-5
3 slots
7 tons

5 damage
1,66 heat
1,45 cooldown

optimal range 630m
projectile velocity 1300 m/s

IS UAC-5
5 slots
9 tons

5 damage
1,66 heat
1,45 cooldown

optimal range 600m
projectile velocity 1300 m/s

In plain English, Clan UAC-5 is 2 tons lighter and takes up 2 less equipment slots. Also, Clan UAC-5 has longer range in comparison with IS UAC-5.

Also in plain English, Clan 'Mechs can use those saved two tons and two slots to equip additional ammo or more heat sinks or more armor or whatever else you would wish. I would call it a pretty big Clan advantage.

The only advantage that IS gets for carrying that heavier, bulkier and shorter ranged weapon is the single projectile advantage ... And now you want to take this only advantage from the IS too.

KursedVixen, on 19 May 2024 - 07:44 AM, said:

Show me one clan weapon besides lasers that do more pinpoint damage.

No problem: Meet the Clan Gauss Rifle.



Clan GR does 15 points of Pin-point Front-loaded damage on 810 metres.

Also, such Clan GR needs 1 less slot than the IS model and it is 3 tons lighter. The only disadvantage is 0,75 sec longer cooldown.

KursedVixen, on 19 May 2024 - 07:44 AM, said:

IS get's the heavy gauss which does 25 PINPOINT Damage

You "forgot" to mention that this range ends on 220 metres. Outside that range you experience a sharp damage dropoff.

KursedVixen, on 19 May 2024 - 07:44 AM, said:

Heavy ppc 540 meters 15 damage pinpoint

And Clan GR does 15 points of Pin-point Front-loaded damage on 810 metres with the same cooldown, no minimum range, etc.

KursedVixen, on 19 May 2024 - 07:44 AM, said:

Thunderbolt 5 damage with aimbot ct missile and 2.5 within 150 as much as a single ATM missile but the atm3 is the smallest you can get which fires 3 which do not all go for ct not to mention are absoutly useless within 0-59 meters , which means while the thunderbolt 5 can do damage to a light mech at 0 not true with ATMs.

TBM-5 does mere 2.5 points of damage within 150 metres and that is not going to deterr any 'Mech from closing - not even Locust. On the other hand ATMs start being effective outside 60 metres.

KursedVixen, on 19 May 2024 - 07:44 AM, said:

And don't give me the BS MOAR RANGE argument they Atm damage at max range is only 1.6 slightly better than LRM but they don't arc as well making them not an LRm replacement. If someone is out in the open long enough for atms to hit them at that range it's the pilots fault not the weapons fault.

Do you realize that the ATM range is 1100 metres vs. 630 metres of the Thunderbolt missile and 900 metres of LRMs? You are paying for the ATM minimum range with much longer range: You can spam your ATMs, while being safely out of the enemy's Thunderbolt or LRM range.

KursedVixen, on 19 May 2024 - 07:44 AM, said:

Tell me why again does Inner sphere mechs get more armor???

Have you not noticed that Clan 'Mechs often pack heavier firepower than comparable IS 'Mechs?

So although some IS 'Mechs have armor or structure quirks, Clan 'Mechs' firepower advantage helps those Clan 'Mechs to ablate the IS armor faster.

I have already told you that in your very own thread: So Why Is It Clan Stuff Is Almost Tt, But Is Stuff Is Much Colder But Higher Damage In Almost All Case

[torsie]

(Competitive is something like tournaments or faction play?)

[BlueDevilspawn]

Every patch we always get the same Clan or IS loyalists (supremacists?) complaining about a bias one way or another. It’s gotten to the point we know who they (and their alts) are. While old CW forced you to pick a faction and stick with it (not the case anymore) we don’t care about factions in the old CW sense, or lore, or LARPing in balance decisions. Tech base and individual mechs/builds are balanced with holistic perspective. Cougurt gave a good explanation of why HAG heat was being lowered. Martian gave a good explanation 5-caliber weapons (valid enough even tho we tend to avoid point by point comparisons). Anyone hoping for OP clans should’ve played them on release.