313 replies to this topic

[Carebear]

That sounds pretty cool.

[Vininator]

If it's someone who looks like he knows what's up, I'll follow him even if it seems risky...
However, if I don't trust his judgement he can go suck a lemon.

[StaIker]

The flaw here is that orders which come from a very good commander might not be recognised as such by many players because the commander is thinking further ahead (as is his role) but as a result the players will tend to disregard them as stupid or suicidal.

My experience in MW4 was that virtually on one would follow orders even when a top team commander was giving them. We all "know better"

Edited by StaIker, 13 March 2012 - 05:12 AM.

[Adridos]

StaIker, on 13 March 2012 - 05:11 AM, said:

The flaw here is that orders which come from a very good commander might not be recognised as such by many players because the commander is thinking further ahead (as is his role) but as a result the players will tend to disregard them as stupid or suicidal.

My experience in MW4 was that virtually on one would follow orders even when a top team commander was giving them. We all "know better"

Well, but if you have strategic mind, just don't want to take responsibility for people around you, you can still understand his orders. Also, in the case that it looks suicidal, then I can at least ask him, why should I do that.

[ManDaisy]

Honestly its all gonna depend on the repair/ payout model for me. If the reward $$$ doesn't cover my repairs then fat chance, I'm not someones cannon fodder.

[Polymorphyne]

My experience in world of tanks has told me that it can be a very cultural thing- people rarely listen or co-operate on the american server, but on the russian server co-ordination on a seamless level is automatic and smack talkers are team-killed by their entire team faster than the blink of an eye. (I have literally heard of that happening, an american joined the russian server, entered a pick up game, started talking smack at the start of the game. His entire teams turrets all immediatly rotated around to TK him for smack talking.)

Co-ordination is impossible in some communities, but in others it is automatic.

[DarkTreader]

Adridos, on 13 March 2012 - 05:16 AM, said:

Well, but if you have strategic mind, just don't want to take responsibility for people around you, you can still understand his orders. Also, in the case that it looks suicidal, then I can at least ask him, why should I do that.

The only problem with that is that some orders may be time sensitive. I tend to personally make branching plans that I can adapt on the fly based on situational awareness, and if I'm running the show for my side, there may be things that need to be done NOW - if they aren't, then something is going to fall apart.

A good commander should have the trust of his men - this is quite difficult to do in an online game - so that the men do not question his orders... unless it's REALLY obvious that there's something stupid going down (i.e. as was stated earlier, parking your 'Mech under the Dropship's exhaust port... unless it has 4 MGs... then you're going to do that and self-destruct, scratch 1 Dropship... ). Sure, sometimes a quick explanation can be given outlining the greater scope of things, but I'm not going to sit down and hold each person's hand as I walk through my orders, going through every possibility that I may have through of, planning out every contingency, etc... Will I have thought of all of that? I hope so. Will mistakes be made? Absolutely. Will I learn from them? You bet yer sweet bippy.

[Talamon Cavalarian]

I will obey the order's given to me if they make sense in a tactical way. I have real military experience and know that many people giving orders will crack when the lead starts flying. Finding leader's that can keep there heads and provide good tactical responses to any situation is going to be a challenge at first, with no opportunities to work together before starting the game. I think there will be alot of people that will decide that being a commander is not for them once they realize how much work it really is.

[Talamon Cavalarian]

I wil follow the orders that are given to me unless those orders lack a tactical sense. I have real world military experience and know that when the lead starts flying many commanders panic. Finding a commander that has good tactical sense, battlefield awareness and doesn't panic under fire will be a challenge at first. I believe that many who choose to be commander's now will change there opinion's when they start doing the job and realize just how much work running an operation is. This should weed out those that should not be in command.

Edited by Talamon Cavalarian, 13 March 2012 - 05:45 AM.

[Ranger207]

I remember reading that they were thinking about changing the name of the Commander role because the role was more about communication and support than commanding. I've found that people with a mic are usually better than people without one, so if someone is a higher rank and has a mic, I'll gladly defer command. Commanding is hard, and the fact that a good portion of the people on here, especally in random matches, are going to not really care what the commander says and are just there to get a good k/d ratio is not going to help the commander. I think that command should be assigned by past preformances. After every match, the members of your team give you a rating from 1 to 10 of how good you were as a commander. The scores are averaged and applyed to your command score. You start out with 50 command points, which is average.

[StaIker]

The key is to have a common understanding of tactics between players (something which has never existed). When one sees situation X he has to know that response Y is the best. If other members on the team all believe (rightly or wrongly) that response A or B or C is best then no one will follow orders because each has their own different understanding of tactics and in their own judgement the order is simply wrong and may also be dangerous to their survival.

For this to work between strangers, a lot of people have to swallow their pride and better judgement and just do what they are told, even the stuff that sounds crazy. Once players are second guessing the commander so that some move and some don't, the lance is going to die.

[Bebo]

If anyone has played Eve Online, there is a simillarity with following the orders of fleet commanders. I think this is a game where commanders will really have to prove themselves. In Eve when you have your ship destroyed it can be a large set back so giving orders puts a lot of people at risk.
I would follow orders but I plan on giving them

[SnowDragon]

If I'm running an op for a planet to be captured, and you're not following orders, you'll be out of the unit on your *** in five seconds flat. Call me an arse, but if I'm playing the game for my character for the story, I don't have time to dance around the issue. As such, it's not just finding an able commander that's the problem (used to run CWs for CB in WoT before the leadership got... silly) but finding trustworthy operatives who you can trust to follow orders, and follow them well.

And for the record, I'm not against my orders being questioned if there's something sounding wrong with them. Better to have them questioned and find out that they were mis heard or mis given than to go with the flawed plan and die horribly.

[DaZur]

Long and short, I'll accommodation my lance commander's orders... until such time I come to believe he's putting me in a no-win situation at which time I'll politely inform him that it's a no-win and make a better suggestion...

[Sylow]

Ranger207, on 13 March 2012 - 05:50 AM, said:

I think that command should be assigned by past preformances. After every match, the members of your team give you a rating from 1 to 10 of how good you were as a commander. The scores are averaged and applyed to your command score. You start out with 50 command points, which is average.

Nice in theory. But we're on the internet, so all you could recognize from the score would be: the lower he is below 50, the more often he commanded, without any information how well he did.

You can bet on it, even the best C3 will get zero-votes when the rest of the team didn't work along and the match is lost. And even if 3/4 of the team actually followed orders and the match was perfectly won, some people will rate the C3 badly, just because they can.

[Don]

If this is some 12 year old kid barking orders... I may be inclined to mutiny.

[Adridos]

Longsword, on 13 March 2012 - 05:26 AM, said:

My experience in world of tanks has told me that it can be a very cultural thing- people rarely listen or co-operate on the american server, but on the russian server co-ordination on a seamless level is automatic and smack talkers are team-killed by their entire team faster than the blink of an eye. (I have literally heard of that happening, an american joined the russian server, entered a pick up game, started talking smack at the start of the game. His entire teams turrets all immediatly rotated around to TK him for smack talking.)

Co-ordination is impossible in some communities, but in others it is automatic.

It is a bit off-topic, but I should really try to connect to their server sometimes. When I will be able to speak Russian flawlessly, because I just understand them right now.

[AlanEsh]

One thing to remember with Pickup Games/Groups -- even a bad plan from a bad commander has a good chance of succeeding if the opponent has no plan at all. Several mechs working in concert are going to be more effective than a bunch of John Waynes committing themselves piecemeal.

i.e. often if you ignore the commander's plan because you think it will fail, then you're contributing to that failure.

[Tannhauser Gate]

Blindly, no.

If I'm with my unit, our commander is known to us, and we are playing as a team then yes of course. Even if I dont know the full scope of the strategy, Ill fight to do my part.

If I'm fighting in what amounts to an open drop and the random commander is competent and has a good plan then yes probably. But if my current position and personal strategy are better than the orders Im being given then Ill will weigh the cost / benefit of either plan and go with whatever works best.

If the commander is unable to coordinate and lead for whatever reason or clearly has a bad plan then no.

[Helmer]

LakeDaemon, on 13 March 2012 - 07:37 AM, said:

Blindly, no.

If I'm with my unit, our commander is known to us, and we are playing as a team then yes of course. Even if I dont know the full scope of the strategy, Ill fight to do my part.

If I'm fighting in what amounts to an open drop and the random commander is competent and has a good plan then yes probably. But if my current position and personal strategy are better than the orders Im being given then Ill will weigh the cost / benefit of either plan and go with whatever works best.

If the commander is unable to coordinate and lead for whatever reason or clearly has a bad plan then no.

Ditto this. As it was written better than I ever could.