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joystick flight system HOTAS configuration config controller

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#161 ImagoX

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 05:35 PM

I read through this post but might have missed this (sorry if so):

Does anyone have a functioning config setup for a Logitech Extreme 3D Pro stick? I'm trying to set it up like I used to play with my old Sidewinder Pro, with steering/up/down on the STICK AXIS (like a flight sim basically) and torso twist on the STICK TWIST (rudder), but I can't make it work.

Currently using the stick "right out of the box" with no special software running; should I load Logitech's software? I usually try to avoid special stuff like that....

By default, (no settings changed) throttle works fine, and I can go up/down with the stick. To turn, however, I have to steer left/right with the STICK TWIST (rudder) which is weird. I tried changing "Turn Left" and "Turn Right" values in the 3rd (joystick) column, but I can only set left OR right, not both, which is very frustrating; when I push left OR push right I get the same setting, which means I turn left OR right regardless of the way I press the joystick (???)

Torso twist can be accomplished fine by changing "Torso" setting and turning left OR right (in-game setting change seems to pick that one up fine, just not actual feet turning.

Thanks in advance for any assistance...

EDIT: Whoops - just saw the post on the last page re: using the Logitech profiling software to flip the twist/X-axis.. Tried this but I can't launch MechwarriorOnline.exe from the profiler software (naturally). If I launch MWO the usual way, the profile doesn't seem to be working.

Argh.

Edited by ImagoX, 04 October 2013 - 06:13 PM.


#162 Galil Nain

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 05:38 PM

View PostImagoX, on 04 October 2013 - 05:35 PM, said:

EDIT: Whoops - just saw the post on the last page re: using the Logitech profiling software to flip the twist/X-axis.. Tried this but I can't launch MechwarriorOnline.exe from the profiler software (naturally). If I launch MWO the usual way, the profile doesn't seem to be working.

Argh.


Something to try...

Are you running the profiler software as an admin (I'm assuming here that you're running under Vista or above)???

If not, run the profiler as admin and watch it suddenly work (probably). Do this by right-clicking on it and "Run as administrator".

There have been numerous cases where software hasn't talked to MWO / Other game clients because the game clients run under admin credentials, but the software you're trying to get to talk to it is not being run in the same user-space.

Hope this helps...

#163 PocketAces

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 04:36 AM

Ok, new to the joystick scene, have read through all the posts and well I am a little confused as to how to configure my joystick. Used the in game setting and have set the throttle, except I would like to use the joystick as a proper throttle, for instance I push forward and I accelerate, if I stop pushing forward the speed stays and I have to pull back to slow down. It is hard on the wrist if I have to keep the joystick forward to keep the acceleration. Any advice, please for an old timer? ;)

#164 F lan Ker

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 02:25 PM

S!

Wasn't there some kind of a throttle toggle in the control options that would do what you described PocketAces? I would rather use a throttle if I was you than a joystick, much more natural and works right awat. I use pedals, throttle and mouse for MWO now, used joystick before but the support is abysmal so had to learn mouse gaming :)

#165 scgt1

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 05:17 AM

NOTE:
Remember, turning a Mech (it's feet) is a DIGITAL (on/off) movement at the moment. This means when you press left or right to turn your Mech, it turns just like you're pressing the A or D key on the keyboard. Slight movements on the joystick react like a key press. We know this is not how sim players want it and it should be small movements = slow turns. The problem is, the fix requires a huge code update on Mech movement. This is something we cannot tackle at the moment but it IS going to be addressed. We just can't give you a confirmed date of delivery.


It's been well over a year on this. It would be nice for it to finally be fixed. Smooth mech movement is pretty crucial for proper mech piloting. Unlike what you get with a keyboard and mouse.

#166 Hammerhai

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 06:01 AM

What with the lack of proper documentation, a lot of it being buried in beta forums, and so on. We DO have analog turning support now, which has made rudder pedals more usable.



This was put in about March of 2013, actually, but that is the last time any obvious joystick support happened.

And from what I see many people still want absolute axis mapping. For Warthog and the TM 16000 this is achievable with the absolute emulation script for Thrustmaster TARGET by Crescent Fresh. Unfortunately He has left the game. I do know Loc Nar has these scripts, and has improved on them for his own use as well.

I use the one for the Warthog, and enjoy quite a bit of success, once I understood the code and fixed a few errors. Newbie Warthog users are welcome to PM me. For the T 16000 M please approach Loc Nar directly, he is very helpful

Regarding the XBOX 360 controller I am doubtful that it has enough Axis resolution and Stick Throw to be effective.

Also realise that the game is coded around mouse support, so however you look at it, with a Joystick you are playing in hard mode. But PGI could have done a LOT more to level the playing field by implementing "Look Spring"/absolute mapping functionality. Not the first and only sub optimal decision by PGI.

#167 Hammerhai

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 06:05 AM

My suggestion has always been to go HOTAM.

A Throttle.(CH Products sell it separately)
Rudder Pedals
Good mouse with on the fly dpi switching to ease sniping

#168 Hammerhai

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 06:12 AM

@F F Lan Ker: Yes and no. Since a proper throttle has a slider, and a Joystick is spring centered, it would not do what Pocket Aces wants. Stay in place and keep the speed. No way around either using a Slider on your Joystick, or using a throttle. Several Products do have a detachable throttle block, and the CH has the advantage of being stand alone.

If you want to play Star Citizen, I would advise shopping for a HOTAS and use the throttle part for MWO. It is easier to justify to SWAMBO. (She who always must be obeyed.)

#169 scgt1

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 06:32 AM

Have X-52 haven't touched it in years. :-(

#170 Xenon Codex

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 06:37 AM

I went old-school and bought a CH Mach 1 off of ebay to experiment with. It was and still is a great joystick because 1) it can be operated with thumb and forefinger for better control vs. full-sized stick, and 2) has a button to unlock the springs on either axis.

I place it to the left of my keyboard and use a mouse for aiming. Unlock the spring for the Y axis to use as a throttle and X axis for leg turning.

It had some crappy buttons, but I replaced those with nice tactile pushbuttons. Coupled with a USB adapter (Rockfire RM-203U), it's a nice solution for someone not wanting to set up a full HOTAS system with separate throttle and pedals. I've been playing with it for a few months and definitely an improvement over the mouse/keyboard.

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#171 Council13

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 12:10 AM

Can anyone tell me how to speed up the twisting/z axis motion on a joystick? when you "look" with the mouse, its so much quicker. I'm a avid joystick user but I feel quite outmatched sometimes.

#172 Hammerhai

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 12:47 PM

Problematic. I would suggest putting cl_joystick_gain to between 10 and 13, and increasing cl_joystick_sensitivity to around 1.1 or even higher. (Increasing the number on sensitivity decreases sensitivity. actually, while gain works as expected.) It is still a tradeoff, and not too satisfactory.

#173 Hammerhai

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 12:56 PM

View PostImagoX, on 04 October 2013 - 05:35 PM, said:

I read through this post but might have missed this (sorry if so):

Does anyone have a functioning config setup for a Logitech Extreme 3D Pro stick? I'm trying to set it up like I used to play with my old Sidewinder Pro, with steering/up/down on the STICK AXIS (like a flight sim basically) and torso twist on the STICK TWIST (rudder), but I can't make it work.

Currently using the stick "right out of the box" with no special software running; should I load Logitech's software? I usually try to avoid special stuff like that....

By default, (no settings changed) throttle works fine, and I can go up/down with the stick. To turn, however, I have to steer left/right with the STICK TWIST (rudder) which is weird. I tried changing "Turn Left" and "Turn Right" values in the 3rd (joystick) column, but I can only set left OR right, not both, which is very frustrating; when I push left OR push right I get the same setting, which means I turn left OR right regardless of the way I press the joystick (???)

Torso twist can be accomplished fine by changing "Torso" setting and turning left OR right (in-game setting change seems to pick that one up fine, just not actual feet turning.

Thanks in advance for any assistance...

EDIT: Whoops - just saw the post on the last page re: using the Logitech profiling software to flip the twist/X-axis.. Tried this but I can't launch MechwarriorOnline.exe from the profiler software (naturally). If I launch MWO the usual way, the profile doesn't seem to be working.

Argh.

ImagoX, the easiest way to get MWO working is to set this profile as the persistent Profile, meaning it is the default profile. Been a while since I used Logitech, so you will have to search for the option on the tabs at the top. Another thing you can try is to link the profiler to "MWOClient.exe" rather than the launcher.

#174 Hammerhai

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 01:02 PM

View PostCyBerkut, on 01 September 2013 - 06:45 PM, said:


I think it is a binary input to select between two modes, rather than an adjustable range.

But I might be mistaken.... Backup your USER.CFG, try values other then 0 or 1, and see what you get. I'd recommend trying something between 0 and 1, at least for starters.

Actually, all you have to do is disable the command by putting a semicolon ";" in front of the line it is on in the user.cfg.
The throttle will then accelerate pushing forward and decelerate pulling back, without the stop in the middle.

Note that cl_joystick_throttle_range will only take a 0 or a 1, and there is no way to put the stop other than in the middle, or use the full range of the axis.

#175 Loc Nar

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 01:29 PM

Quote

For Warthog and the TM 16000 this is achievable with the absolute emulation script for Thrustmaster TARGET by Crescent Fresh. Unfortunately He has left the game. I do know Loc Nar has these scripts, and has improved on them for his own use as well.


Guess I missed this a while back, but this is partially correct. The Warthog script I have was written by Crescent Fresh, but others beyond that are (T16000m and Cougar scripts..) ones I wrote, aside from a version of the Warty script I converted to Cougar and used initially. I stopped using the modded version of the warty script many moon ago (ran it from Oct to Dec 12) and wrote a new one from scratch at that point, which is what I have used since. Although a work of art in its own right, there were too many dead/non functioning/poorly functioning/and unused features in it, although until I made one that worked better for me it was like magic.

My stick is different enough from a regular one that I needed to come up with my own scripts sooner than later to get closer to its potential, so in practice starting early on the only feature of the Warty script I found utilized was sensitivity slider, but after many games realized I just use the same few positions so once I figured out what those were in TARGET numbers I went from there. For instance the automatic 'c' centering while in absolute mode might be a neat idea for a spring loaded/centering stick but not for mine (leads to unwanted spamming of that button at worst imaginable times), and deadzones? ...those are for spring loaded sticks since that need a safe 'home', where mine needs the opposite -constant positional data. Or swapping between absolute/relative... once you know how you play you don't tend to switch those things. 'Sluggish' was never a functional portion, etc.

Ironically making the new script allowed me to do manipulate axis parameters better once it was no longer constrained to the analog sensitivity slider, like tying sensitivity to automatically reduce/cycle with advanced zoom, and having a toggle to switch between known useable fixed point settings, the way a mouse does, and shift layers, and other features that playing ~a thousand matches helped me figure out would be useful to implement as opposed to just being neato, and my hardware is approaching the 5000 match mark now.

Crescent's script is unbeatable for exploring ballpark settings/preferences but is a very one-size-fits all solution that is pretty limiting as well, so once you figure those out you can definitely make a more useful standalone purpose built script that allows you to make the small parts of it that actually get used work even better. ...not that any scripts can actually bridge the gap between a first-order controller in a zero-control game, but that falls under 'should I' and not 'could I' and a subject of it's own.

Sorry I can't be of more help your problem, Council. Honestly my best advice is buy a T16000M, use TARGET to get past all the silly hurdles keeping most of the experience shrouded in mystery. If you buy a T16000, it's useful for other games and I feel should be anyone's first joystick and no gamers toybox complete without one IMO, as it can easily tread where others come up short, like underbaked controls of MWO for instance. TARGET (Thrustmaster's kickass stick software and the subject of this post) is already better 'joystick support' than one could ever hope this game to have, which unfortunately is the least of the problems for controls in this game...

edit: tone

Edited by Loc Nar, 22 November 2013 - 04:28 PM.


#176 mekabuser

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 09:48 AM

this is so sad this isnt done yet. I expect it not to be done by the time im flying around the universe with a jstick in star citizen.

#177 C E Dwyer

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 11:25 AM

kind of sad the primary system is still mouse and keyboard when you have a pilot that uses a throttle and joystick in your mechs

I think its down to inability rather that a desire to give proper joystick use something which every other pvp shooter i play fully supports

so the lefties of this world carry on with a joystick and throttle that stops your mech each time you text chat.

#178 Zolaz

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 04:45 PM

MWO isnt a mech simulator, it is cash grab with a bunch of promises that the player base is waiting on.

#179 CyBerkut

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 10:08 AM

There's plenty of sadness to go around.

#180 Ritter Cuda

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 12:26 PM

View PostCyBerkut, on 28 November 2013 - 10:08 AM, said:

There's plenty of sadness to go around.

yes there is.iI close bata the dev told us that a working joystick interface was low on the list ..I've come back after a year and it seem that it is still true.





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