208 replies to this topic

[Abivard]

These people aren't interested in helping the new player, they just want a newb stomping area where they will be safe from teamwork. That is why they want solo only games with out a ranking system, they are griefers for the most part, in game or on the boards.

[Kell Draygo]

Joseph Mallan, on 15 January 2013 - 08:45 AM, said:

Yes but your way of thinking is that even two man teams are evil cause they have an advantage over players who do not for whatever reason chose to not talk to their teammates. the problem with what you are saying is that this is a team game where teamwork provides an edge. it is not a PvE solo game. If a team uses no communication at all they loose to a team who uses chat, or just the Command Chair. So once even 2 man teams are banished will PUGs then want chat eliminated? i not arguing that everyone needs to be on Comms, but if you are not accept you are limiting yourself and blame the correct individuals for your not having fun.

I PUG When there are no Law men on line. I get bored quickly! When I drop with even one friend I have more fun. When a third friend joins up we have even more fun. Not because we win or lose but because we share the game for all it is worth.

There is nothing evil about people in groups. It's just a different play style. That's all. People who group up enjoy playing in groups. Even some solo queue players enjoy playing in coordinated groups, they can choose to queue up in the group section as well to fill out empty spots on teams. You keep thinking that one group is evil, one group is the good side. Or one group is wrong, one group is right.

That's a completely wrong mentality. Just two groups who want to enjoy the game in their way. Playing in a solo queue is not even close to playing PvE. Just because you queue solo doesn't mean you are not playing a team game. Just when I go to the court to play bball, I join a pick up game where we choose random teams before we start. Nothing premade about that but it's still a team game, we still work together to win.

You continue to think that it's bad to solo queue and that it punishes other players, I don't even understand that. There are people who enjoy forming groups before a match starts and there are people that enjoy filing in by themselves. It still requires teamwork in each game. It's just that good pug players will make adjustments on the fly and rely more on individual skills.

[Joseph Mallan]

StalaggtIKE, on 15 January 2013 - 08:40 AM, said:

I do? I am a deaf mute. I can't use TS or Voip to communicate with my team. Pre ECM I was able to attack the selected target and focus fire with everyone else. I was able to focus fire on the most damaged armor on my enemy. Now that ECM is providing stealth, I can't even select targets, let alone focus on a weak part. I am confined to a heavy hitting brawler that does so much dps, that it doesn't matter if I simply aim at CT. The proper tools have been striped from the game.

You sir are that 5%. But tell me, can you see who your team is firing at? Do you have LoS to that target? The you Like me can fire at a Mech a PUG team mate is firing at ECM or not. If you truly are Deaf and Mute, I commend you for playing a game where communication is a advantage. I salute your fortitude to play against those disadvantages. But many of the players crying are not in your situation and have no excuse.

[StalaggtIKE]

Joseph Mallan, on 15 January 2013 - 08:51 AM, said:

You sir are that 5%. But tell me, can you see who your team is firing at? Do you have LoS to that target? The you Like me can fire at a Mech a PUG team mate is firing at ECM or not. If you truly are Deaf and Mute, I commend you for playing a game where communication is a advantage. I salute your fortitude to play against those disadvantages. But many of the players crying are not in your situation and have no excuse.

It would have been simpler if you had told me to **** off.

[SI The Joker]

chimps... soldiers...boogey men... oh my!

Question: Who trains soldiers? Other soldiers with more experience.

Question: Who do "just out of boot camp" soldiers learn from? Other soldiers with more experience.

So why is it when soldiers (Mechwarriors) with loads of experience tell newer warriors how to succeed, they are given the bird by antisocial folks who don't want a real team game in the first place?


Finally, something to ponder. Maybe I'm missing something. If you run 8man to win, apparently you're a cheese team with DDCs and Ravens, out to roflstomp anyone who dares step on the battlefield... because... you know... that's elite. If you run a 4 man to win, apparently you are a pugstomper who can't hack it in 8mans, so you stick to 4mans because all you care about is your W/L & K/D ratio.

Ok.

Apply the logic above to the experienced player that has these kinds of demands. Basically what you're saying is "I want a mode where I can stomp on people all by myself, because I'm tired of getting stomped on by groups".

[Joseph Mallan]

StalaggtIKE, on 15 January 2013 - 08:53 AM, said:

It would have been simpler if you had told me to **** off.

It would have also been rude.


You haven't earn my being rude.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 15 January 2013 - 08:55 AM.

[Kill Dozer]

Serapth, on 15 January 2013 - 06:59 AM, said:

True... now how long do you think it will take PGI to add them, and will there be any pugs left by the time they are complete? Well actually, in addition to those features, they also need shared targeting and communication macros, that would mostly even up the field.

They are advertising the game heavily now, I see banners all over the web. This means they will be pulling in new blood other then founders, and there threshold for unbalance is shrinking. They should certainly triage the problem. Hack the existing MM to put a premade on each team, simple easy elegant fix that doesnt take 6 months.

Besides, given the fact they think ECM is balanced and working fine... how much faith do you have in them getting ELO right?

I'm right there with you, just repeating my same old response to threads with complaints about matchmaking (from both the pug and team point of view). The solution is easy, many many games in the last ten years have had decent match making (MW4, Red Orchestra, L4D2 for example) and yet some (like Dead Space 2) still manage to screw it up and make what could have been a great game into just an OK game.

Whether PGI can, or will, fix up matchmaking on a standard working model or go all in for some kind of goofy ELO system with team restrictions is beyond anyone's knowledge except theirs, I just hope they get it right.

[SI The Joker]

StalaggtIKE, on 15 January 2013 - 08:40 AM, said:

I do? I am a deaf mute. I can't use TS or Voip to communicate with my team. Pre ECM I was able to attack the selected target and focus fire with everyone else. I was able to focus fire on the most damaged armor on my enemy. Now that ECM is providing stealth, I can't even select targets, let alone focus on a weak part. I am confined to a heavy hitting brawler that does so much dps, that it doesn't matter if I simply aim at CT. The proper tools have been striped from the game.

Now see, this is why I said this, back on page 4. It might solve this for you.

Quote

That said, I'll also say that I think the in-game UI could use an improvement to help people who have not found/used voice comms yet and in those instances where it's tough to find which target is primary.

Commander has ability to designate a targeted mech as "primary" by pressing LEFT CTRL-D on the keyboard. This changes the square around the mech to another color signifying its primary target status. When another player targets the mech, they see the different color and know straight away that the mech is "primary". To be clear it wouldn't be intended to draw a full-time square around the mech... only if a player has the mech targeted (or can target the mech) will they see the primary target status.

Add to this, maybe even a text notification in the window when a commander sets a waypoint.

COMMANDER: DEFEND E6, MOVE TO A7, FLANK RIGHT F6 etc.

Edited by SI The Joker, 15 January 2013 - 08:57 AM.

[StalaggtIKE]

Joseph Mallan, on 15 January 2013 - 08:54 AM, said:

It would have also been rude.


You haven't earn my being rude.

Yeah, internet tough guys..., we could really use more of those.

[FrDrake]

Serapath you can still chat after you die in a game. Everyone once in a while it'll be bugged and I can't, but otherwise dead people are chatting all the time.

Also to SIXSIXSIX your win rates are 44% and 41%, which are almost exactly the same when I try to solo PUG. I suggest you look at your allies more when looking to blame your losses, when I PUG I don't think "wow I got rolled by a premade" but I usually think "wow why are my teammates doing that they're so bad".

How many of your pugs matches start off with sniper fire, to see 2 of your teammates drop and then what do the rest of them do, do they run and take cover, do they group up and try to attack a flank, no they all just go stand there and try to exchange fire as they get picked off one by one. Or they charge in, or any other number of tactics that simply won't work.

The reason I don't pug as much anymore isn't because I get rolled by premades it's because I don't have the patience every night to herd cats all night long to get an acceptable win% and I usually play with a sleeping infant in the room so voice comms is out for me too.

Your win rate won't go up if they take out 4mans in any way.

[SI The Joker]

FrDrake, on 15 January 2013 - 08:58 AM, said:

Serapath you can still chat after you die in a game. Everyone once in a while it'll be bugged and I can't, but otherwise dead people are chatting all the time.

Press ESCAPE to bring up the exit dialog, then ESCAPE again to make it go away. You'll be able to chat again. It happens to me all the time.

[Kraven Kor]

SlXSlXSlX, on 14 January 2013 - 11:43 PM, said:

Premades do win all the time. Matches have lopsided ending results quite often, in fact it is the norm. Anecdotes aside, 4 man premades in 8 man matches was a terrible idea, and has resulted in exactly what we see before us. You can look at pub farming favorably if you want, most founders do. (Not all)

No, no we don't.

We don't always win, and we don't all or even most "just want to pub farm."

But keep telling yourself that. You've already made it true in your own mind.

[Joseph Mallan]

StalaggtIKE, on 15 January 2013 - 08:56 AM, said:

Yeah, internet tough guys..., we could really use more of those.

Not being a tough guy in the least. I acknowledged that you have a reason for not using chat. But this is a team game and anything that will enhance communication will help the team. PUG<random teams<TS3 Premade<Competitive Premades. I have played as almost all of them and I have lost to them. I am not complaining.

[Ghogiel]

L2P, get a second job, Elo solves world hunger. premades gotta eat too,

[Greyfyl]

Orgasmo, on 15 January 2013 - 12:43 AM, said:

No, that's when you have fun fights, often down to the last two mechs.

How hard is it for people to get on to a FREE TeamSpeak server hosted exclusively for MWO? It's there so you can coodinate with other people looking for PUGS.

It doesn't matter how hard or easy it is, for the love of god you people need to accept the fact that a large segment of the gaming community will not want to HAVE TO GET ON TS in order to get a decent match. End of story, whether you understand it or not, whether you care or not, it's a simple truth that you need to get your little brains to comprehend.

MWO needs those players to stay, unless of course you guys don't care if the game makes it through the year. You need look no further than the fact that the idea of 3rd person was even being thought about - that should tell you that MWO is in need of a larger playerbase.

[StalaggtIKE]

Joseph Mallan, on 15 January 2013 - 09:07 AM, said:

Not being a tough guy in the least. I acknowledged that you have a reason for not using chat. But this is a team game and anything that will enhance communication will help the team. PUG<random teams<TS3 Premade<Competitive Premades. I have played as almost all of them and I have lost to them. I am not complaining.

You know what help communication? The paperdoll and radar intel that our sensors picked up. It's stupid that ECM now blocks..., all intel, just because some kiddies couldn't figure out how to get away from slow missiles, that even came with a large flashing banner at the top of the screen. I'm actually fine; I've just fallen into the gap like most people and either pilot a brawler or RVN-3L. But if someone wants to know why teamwork in pugs is such a failure, ECM is part of that problem.

Edited by StalaggtIKE, 15 January 2013 - 09:15 AM.

[Serapth]

I know the work arounds with chat. The problem is, its broken in so many ways as to be nearly
useless.

About 25% of the time it bugs out, requiring ESC ESC, often 3 or 4 times.
Text lasts about 15 seconds
Blurred during load screen
And most annoyingly... It dies with the game session. If you die, whatever you typed it's l lost.
If the person you are watching dies, the text is lost

Basically it's crap.

[Joseph Mallan]

StalaggtIKE, on 15 January 2013 - 09:14 AM, said:

You know what help communication? The paperdoll and radar intel that our sensors picked up. It's stupid that ECM now blocks..., all intel, just because some kiddies couldn't figure out how to get away from slow missiles, that even came with a large flashing banner at the top of the screen. I'm actually fine; I've just fallen into the gap like most people and either pilot a brawler or RVN-3L. But if someone wants to know why teamwork in pugs is such a failure, ECM is part of that problem.

This sir, I completely agree with.

Angel ECM is not as effective as the present 'in game' Guardian ECM!

[Ilwrath]

Abivard, on 15 January 2013 - 08:49 AM, said:

These people aren't interested in helping the new player, they just want a newb stomping area where they will be safe from teamwork. That is why they want solo only games with out a ranking system, they are griefers for the most part, in game or on the boards.

Yes newb stomping area is bad but how is that different from the pug stomping area that the premades are currently enjoying? Do you think that is bad too?

[Lykaon]

Kell Draygo, on 15 January 2013 - 08:37 AM, said:

To play it your way. Your vision of Mechwarrior is that it is a heavily coordinated, heavy communication simulation of tactical warfare. I respect that vision and think it is cool. But that is not the only way to play this game. To think that is to encourage an early death for this F2P game.

The core of this game, to appeal to the masses to the point where this game is successful for the long run, meaning that its lifespan will be long, is that it is giant stompy robots. It should cater to both people with your vision, of a heavily tactical simulator of Mechwarrior and to the casual players who just want to hop on, blow **** up, have fun without going through all the hoops to make it some sort of coordinated warfare.

The biggest problem with the community is that some people it's only their way or the highway, thus the arguments. Simple solution until a balanced matchmaking system is implemented is to split the camps up so both sides have fun.

There is a problem with desiring this game to be puggie paradise.The problem is that Mechwarrior Online is by intentional design a team oriented game.

If the game was meant to be optimized for random players with wide gulf of skill between them to be successful it wouldn't need the complexity it has.

Puggie wonderland online would have 1 stock mech with identical loadouts for all players.That would be fair and easy to ballance.

Puggie wonderland online would have one game mode,Free for all death match.No need to complicate things with teams.

Puggie wonderland online would have third person view and infinate respawns.Not this battle of attrition crap that requires careful husbanding of resources to succeed.

Nope we didn't get Puggie wonderland online we got Mechwarrior.

By design this game has core features.as discused by the devs they are...

Information warfare: The control of intelligence to forward the goals of your team.In this aspect premades with voice coms dominate.Were the developers aware that team speak existed? damn right they were aware.
By design this pillar information warfare is enhanced by premades with voice comms.

Role warfare: The use of the varrious chassis classes to fufill battlefield roles.Seeing how puggie matches are a random potluck of whatever happens to be in que and matches some other bunch of random mechs I highly doubt PuG matches are designed to be the pinnical of Role Warfare.
Now premades...yep a premade can hand pick mechs based upon desired roles on the battlefield.These mechs can be further optimized to specialize within the premades desired role warfare participation.
Did the Devs know that Pug matches are totally random selections of whatever mechs were in que? Yep they wrote the code they clearly knew that Role warfare would be best expressed by premades.

Community Warfare: The interactions between the great houses and large merc corps as they capture and defend worlds in an ongoing and persistant game enviorment.
Granted this is in concept and we have nothing concrete as of yet but...

If role warfare and information warfare are used to compete in community warfare and puggies do both poorly and premades do both very well guess who will be the main driving force behind Community warfare?

Premades.

This game is by design a team game and premade teams are superior teams.The game is not optimized for puggies it is optimized for premades and that is an intentional design choice.

The problem is a vocal minority of Exclusively PuG players are missing the point of this game's core design features.

They want Puggie Wonderland Online.

I want something more than infinate ammo/respawn/deathmatch/red vs blue online.

I actually want the complexities that are at the root of the puggie frustration issue.

Edited by Lykaon, 15 January 2013 - 09:35 AM.