455 replies to this topic

[roflplanes]

Joseph Mallan, on 29 January 2013 - 01:43 PM, said:

No No sir. PUGs can be House aligned and therefore NOT padding. You are confusing PUGs for Lone Wolves again.

But to play devil's advocate for him, when I personally PUG, I simply EXPECT to either do well on my own or end up as fodder for a coordinated group. If I WANT to play as a team (and consequently do well in a match consistently), then I simply jump on TS and find a group. Too easy.

People who PUG then complain about it are like paintballers who run without protective equipment and then complain about the pain of getting shot. You know what you're getting yourself into and it's REALLY not that hard to properly protect yourself from the pain. Either fix yourself or don't cry.

IMHO.

[Major Scumbag]

Talked a friend in trying the game. We worked different shifts so he pugs. He installed the game and since there no campaign or actual training grounds. He goes into match and proceeds to get stopmped. He stated if I had a chance to learn the game and controls before being thrown into the wolfes. He would keep playing. He then goes saying since there is no way to learn the game without being stompled on. He would have stayed....

[Kell Draygo]

roflplanes, on 29 January 2013 - 02:22 PM, said:

4-man groups dropping into PUGs get to enjoy weight matching AS WELL as the chance of another 4-man dropping opposite of your team. Therefore, there's really no advantage/disadvantage at all except on the random (and rather unlikely) chance that there isn't a single other 4-man to drop with the other team.

You're kidding right? The chance of another 4-man premade on the other side is very low, especially if a premade is sporting the 4 ECM Raven mix.

[Kristov Kerensky]

There IS one thing that's being rather...overlooked or just blatantly ignored, in one of the dev posts where the MM phase 3 was being discussed and how it'll work with 12 man teams....the Ask the Devs 30 no less...

Premades will be matched with public players to get a complete 12 man team, could be a premade of 4 or 11, doesn't matter, they'll be matched with pubs until there's 12 total. So...think about that...along with whatever ranking/skill level/whatever system they end up using to help match up players on more then just basic tonnage class, and what that could mean...

Currently we have a very small subsection of the playerbase whining, yes WHINING, about getting beaten every time they drop by evil 2x4 sync dropping teams who only exist to roflstomp on pubbies. Oddly enough, we've been told, in this very thread no less, by the devs that the reported incidents are NOT what they appear, it's not premades doing that roflstomping.

One would think that the FIRST time the devs came out and stated this complaint was a false one would be enough, but no, it continued and the whiners actually accused PGI of LYING about the situation. Now we have that same confirmation that the complaint is a false one, soon we'll see the whiners telling us how PGI is again lying about that and that they, the whiners, know the REAL truth.

[Enzane]

Shut up and Shoot Sh*t.

Okay now that I've said that.

It's a game. Enjoy it, love it, hate it. Just play the game. PGI is going to make the game how they see fit.

So strap in. Grab your joysticks (or mouse and keyboard) and Hang on for a ride! Because that's what PGI is giving us. Sometimes up, sometimes down, sometimes a loop-de-loop.

[Pht]

... this "problem" existed in mw4 too.

Match making might help a little bit, but this is due to the basic nature of online multiplay; people want to play together with their friends and use teamwork - and there's nothing wrong with this.

However, at the moment, the effect is going to be slightly exaggerated because the game is still being patched (changing) and is still (relatively) new - once the game stabliizes and people playing pick-up style games learn to do what works best as far as teamwork without actually being a unit or using TS, this "problem" won't be as annoying.

People not engaging in close teamwork will virtually always be beat by those using good teamwork. And there is nothing wrong with this. It *is* wrong to get mad that this happens, though.

If it bugs you that much, learn what they're doing to win repetitively, and ... do what they're doing. 99% of it can be done without TS.

Edited by Pht, 29 January 2013 - 03:03 PM.

[Beo Vulf]

Jape, on 29 January 2013 - 04:02 AM, said:

This needs to be fixed with matchmaking, not by players stopping playing in groups. Players can't be expected to fix the game.

They can fix themselves if they have a shred of maturity.
I know that's asking a lot for some of them since the only way they can have an ego is if they can out-game someone. If they payed as much attention to the rest of their lives as they do to gaming they might actually be successful at something else.
Some drop in groups because they want to drop with friends.
Others drop in groups because it makes them feel good about themselves when they can pick on someone in a game like they get picked on daily in RL.
There are other ways to deal with a lack of self image.

[Tarl Cabot]

• Current Combat text chat is a failure. It needs to be persistent and not interfere with combat moves.
  
• Lack of lobby of any kind means only those players who can properly type out someone's name and add them as a friend benefits, but even then, without in game messaging/queue you do not know if that person is available or not, or have room.
  
• If drops were limited to lance vs lance (that is 4vs4) would as many of these threads exist? Or if #1 and/or #2 were half way decent, would the drops not be as one sided due to the likelihood the pilots would more likely speak with each other and not have the force multiplier of max 8 mechs hitting one target? The last one is more likely to be understood by those who participated in the MPBT games, moreso than those who played the Mechwarrior video games with the respawns, no heat, unlimited ammo, etc. League players would fall more inline with the MPBT personnel, and if they rolled over another unit it was more of a veteran unit vs a green unit and not a group of nobodies thrown together.

Right now, with the way PGI has the game setup, it would be nice to see who is teamed up or not. Even in a pure PUG group that would change their approach, develop tactics (if any are used) on who should be the primary targets. Even when I PUG, if I run into people I have known a long time from the MPBT games, I get to feel their happiness. But then, they have learned to prioritize their targets while having the ability to change it on the fly through TS but doing it in game through the ineffective chat interface leaves lots to be desired.

The chat interface needs a HUGE overhaul.

[roflplanes]

Tarl Cabot, on 29 January 2013 - 03:05 PM, said:

Right now, with the way PGI has the game setup, it would be nice to see who is teamed up or not. Even in a pure PUG group that would change their approach, develop tactics (if any are used) on who should be the primary targets.

Great on paper (and with people who act like adults...) but how many times a day do you drop a man or two short because some ***hat decided to disconnect farm all day instead of playing and helping his team? As infuriating as that is, imagine the people (we like to refer to them as "Blue Falcons") who would join a game, see a premade on the other side, and simply rage quit like a child instead of doing what you suggested?

In a perfect world where everyone would react as you proposed in your post, I agree it would be AWESOME to see groups coded somehow. In the real world? With THIS group of people? Every game would end up being a 4-man premade and 4 PUGs vs. 4 PUGs and 4 disconnects... I personally vote no to that haha.

[Muffinator]

My side gets accused of being a premade almost every time we win. Usually when many of us are clearly pugging but actually playing properly. Bad players should get better excuses.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Tarl, you are correct, the interface and lobby structure(ok, there isn't actually one yet, but the social panel) definately need a major overhaul, and lucky for us, that's already in the plans and has been announced multiple times as being worked on, I forget exactly where it's sitting on the roadmap currently, but it's being worked on and is an acknowledged issue by PGI.

As are the just as important things like a Tutorial, adding information to mech lab, and better functionality in the mech lab tools, also things that are in the works.

Match making tools are also in the works, more then just the ranking system and premade vs pubs stuff, things like Lance controls, setting map and who's on which team for a truely coordinated dropping, and so much more.

These things are all acknoweldged issues by PGI with changes incoming as time goes on.

Why we don't already have em..it's a beta for an online only pvp game where the initial set of testers were already familiar with the general game setting...that's purely a guess based on what I personally experienced in the closed beta and I have no idea if it's even close to reality or not. I think the number of Founders who actually have 0 MW experience surprised PGI, I know it still does me, and they were caught unprepared for the number of testers who didn't actually have a clue, and that was made worse when they went open beta. I'm figuring they really didn't realize how large of a group they'd end up with that had never played a single MW style game before and they just didn't plan on it THIS early in the testing.

Or maybe they just didn't have the people to do the work...that's always possible as well.

[The Last Blade]

Can you count to 3? Can you push the mouse button once?

If you answered yes to these 2 questions, then you too can 8man sync drop.

Sync dropping kills it for pugs, they almost never win. Yes there are a lot of premades, it's not hard to make them. Saying ELO will fix this is inherently ******** and is like saying Piranha is infallible. People can simply fix their own ELO to whatever they want with no reprecussions. We'll have to see how they do when they make matchmaking stage 3, and after the community exploits it as much as they can. Hopefully they listen to experienced players community concerns... but that's just wishful thinking. Anyways, just exploit it and report it, that's what beta is for, if you truly care about this game. 8 man dropping is ******** and I feel clans don't do this because if they really care about this game, they won't do this often. That is piranhas fault with the game though, not the players fault. They made a faulty system and their beta players literally abuse it, that's what beta is for.... that is if the designers actually listen, otherwise it's just players showing new customers why they shoudln't be playing this game.

[anonymous175]

Don't get it myself but when it happens it happens. Hope it gets fixed though.

At the very least entertain the idea of the newbie queue for x amount of matches until they graduate into the general queue which will be helped with ranking in place.

[Greyfyl]

Kristov Kerensky, on 29 January 2013 - 02:40 PM, said:

There IS one thing that's being rather...overlooked or just blatantly ignored, in one of the dev posts where the MM phase 3 was being discussed and how it'll work with 12 man teams....the Ask the Devs 30 no less...

Premades will be matched with public players to get a complete 12 man team, could be a premade of 4 or 11, doesn't matter, they'll be matched with pubs until there's 12 total. So...think about that...along with whatever ranking/skill level/whatever system they end up using to help match up players on more then just basic tonnage class, and what that could mean...

Currently we have a very small subsection of the playerbase whining, yes WHINING, about getting beaten every time they drop by evil 2x4 sync dropping teams who only exist to roflstomp on pubbies. Oddly enough, we've been told, in this very thread no less, by the devs that the reported incidents are NOT what they appear, it's not premades doing that roflstomping.

One would think that the FIRST time the devs came out and stated this complaint was a false one would be enough, but no, it continued and the whiners actually accused PGI of LYING about the situation. Now we have that same confirmation that the complaint is a false one, soon we'll see the whiners telling us how PGI is again lying about that and that they, the whiners, know the REAL truth.

Have you ever worked with salesmen/marketing people? Just a question because you seem pretty naive about the whole situation. I'm not accusing anyone of downright lying, but I do think that there is no way PGI is going to out right admit that pugstomping is a huge issue, it would be another black mark on what has not been the most impressive of OB's.

I personally have never made a claim to the devs directly or here on the forums that at such and such a time I was rolled by a premade, please confirm this for me. I don't think I've ever seen anyone do that. So I have to take what was posted today by PGI with a grain of salt. I personally have verified plenty of games against premades, yes they were in the us TS dropships. This isn't rocket science.

By the way, have you seen the list of active TS servers lately? There are quite a few, and not too many of them are doing 8 mans from what I keep hearing, so who exactly are they playing against if they aren't beating up on pugs?

And actually you are whining about whining so how does that make you any better than anyone else?

The simple question is this:

Would having premades on both teams on average produce better matches then games in which there is a premade on one team only?

Of course it would, if you argue that this would not be a better solution than what we have now you are simply being combative or trolling or desperately trying to keep the 'unfair advantage' that you have now - the bolded quote here being directly how Garth phrased it. And no I'm not saying put this in place instead of ELO, I'm saying put them both into effect at the same time.

Edited by Greyfyl, 29 January 2013 - 03:42 PM.

[SouthernRex]

Go **** yourself. I'll do any kind of drop I please.

[Sulf]

ConnorSinclair, on 29 January 2013 - 04:05 AM, said:

Even a rank system couldn't save this game right now.

dealing with the 5 stages of grief.

Right now we're on Bargaining, but as soon as PGI does it's next major failure we'll be at depression and acceptance.

Too late. Already at acceptance. Mostly stopped playing.

[Dirkdaring]

PhoenixFire55, on 29 January 2013 - 05:41 AM, said:

Why do we keep hearing this bullsh*t? This is a TEAM based game. Tired of getting stomped go find yourself some friends to team up with.

Someone didn't read the OP post.

[Jetfire]

So basically I should expressly avoid playing a multiplayer game with my friends? I play multiplayer games to play with my friends, that makes no sense. We do not sync drop because it is slow, unfair and makes you sloppy, but 2-4 mans are going to continue. MM3 should help filter the performance levels.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Actually Grey, there's a post in this very thread where someone claimed to be have been rolled by a 2x4 sync, only to find out..it WASN'T! Not the first time it's happened either, there's been a lot of screenshots that the poster would claim was clear proof that they'd been rolled by a 2x4 sync dropping team. THAT is what Garth was talking about when he said he checked, it wasn't premades doing the stomping, it was pubs and sometimes some 2 mans with the pubs.

The FIRST time the devs let us know it was bs was in Dec, when someone started yet another 'premades are killing this game' post and we were even given stats showing it was otherwise. PGI was flat out called lairs for that, which is what you seem to be calling them yourself.

Maybe you've missed that PGI has been pretty good about admitting the issues with the game right now? That it's badly needing a tutorial, revamped mech lab with information and better tools, a better match making system, bigger maps and so on? You missed all those admissions I take it? Yeah, see, right there, a better match making system, one of the things PGI has admitted needs to be improved...only, not because premades are roflstomping all over pubbies and that that is costing them potential customers, it needs to be improved because it's just plain bad and doesn't allow for any communication pre and post drop, doesn't allow for setting what map to drop on, who'll be on what team, you know, MATCH MAKING beyond the 'drop 8 people per side without any restrictions' or 'match up to 8 total per side and match each side based on class tonnage limits'. They, PGI, has admitted it's not good, it needs to be improved, and they are working on it.

So...as I said...the whiners tell us PGI is lying and they, the whiners, KNOW the truth.

[Greyfyl]

Kristov Kerensky, on 29 January 2013 - 03:57 PM, said:

Actually Grey, there's a post in this very thread where someone claimed to be have been rolled by a 2x4 sync, only to find out..it WASN'T! Not the first time it's happened either, there's been a lot of screenshots that the poster would claim was clear proof that they'd been rolled by a 2x4 sync dropping team. THAT is what Garth was talking about when he said he checked, it wasn't premades doing the stomping, it was pubs and sometimes some 2 mans with the pubs.

The FIRST time the devs let us know it was bs was in Dec, when someone started yet another 'premades are killing this game' post and we were even given stats showing it was otherwise. PGI was flat out called lairs for that, which is what you seem to be calling them yourself.

Maybe you've missed that PGI has been pretty good about admitting the issues with the game right now? That it's badly needing a tutorial, revamped mech lab with information and better tools, a better match making system, bigger maps and so on? You missed all those admissions I take it? Yeah, see, right there, a better match making system, one of the things PGI has admitted needs to be improved...only, not because premades are roflstomping all over pubbies and that that is costing them potential customers, it needs to be improved because it's just plain bad and doesn't allow for any communication pre and post drop, doesn't allow for setting what map to drop on, who'll be on what team, you know, MATCH MAKING beyond the 'drop 8 people per side without any restrictions' or 'match up to 8 total per side and match each side based on class tonnage limits'. They, PGI, has admitted it's not good, it needs to be improved, and they are working on it.

So...as I said...the whiners tell us PGI is lying and they, the whiners, KNOW the truth.

You know what, you made some very valid points.

All I can say is that I personally often keep TS open regardless of whether I am going to join a premade or not. The premades are quite prevelant in US primetime, I can see them there in TS. To say they are not is insulting to anyones intelligence. Just look at the thread asking 'who are premades' - there are a TON of people doing premades. There is no possible way that all those players can be doing premades in the evening without effecting the pug players, it's just common sense.

My beef is with the large segment of the premade community (of which I am also a part of btw) that refused to admit that the current setup is bad for the game. Even Garth made mention of 'playing at an advantage' or something to the effect. I see people that insist that they only premade for social reasons.....but when you ask them they are somehow against having premades on both teams in a match. Honestly, if you are playing in premades for the social aspect only, why in the world would you care if the other team also had a premade?

The combination of ELO and balancing premades to both teams would have a huge positive effect in making the 8-0 and 8-1 games less commonplace. This would be good for the longevity of the game would it not? Yet a large portion of the premade community is vehemently against the simple concept of a premade on both sides and filled out with pugs. Ask yourself why are they so against it? It wouldn't effect their ability to drop as teams or to be social at all, so what is the sticking point? That pug players are there to be used by them as cannon fodder? That anyone too stupid and lazy to install TS deserves to be on the receiving end of a good pugstomping? I just don't get this whole "I premade so I am better than anyone that pugs" mentality. It's childish, just as childish as those that scream 'sync-drop' everytime the other team has 7 or 8 founders on it.

I'm pretty much done with the issue for now, it's the same excuses by both sides at this point. People on both sides have drawn their lines and you aren't going to reason with any of them. I'm just as guilty of this as anyone as I can't possibly understand how anyone would have an issue with premades being placed on both teams.

Edited by Greyfyl, 29 January 2013 - 08:41 PM.