299 replies to this topic

[Sable Dove]

Orzorn, on 29 January 2013 - 06:17 PM, said:

ECM just compounds the issue, because mechs with access to streaks, but not ECM, suffer.

And let's not forget the poor Spider 5K and 5V, which have neither ECM, nor streaks.

[Orzorn]

Sable Dove, on 29 January 2013 - 06:20 PM, said:

And let's not forget the poor Spider 5K and 5V, which have neither ECM, nor streaks.

Heh, I think its more than just a shame that the Death's Kneel was declared DoA so fast because it didn't have ECM.

It seems that they've created a situation where, if a light mech doesn't have ECM and streaks on the same package, its worth is severely depleted.

[hammerreborn]

Sable Dove, on 29 January 2013 - 06:12 PM, said:

PPC's EMP effect would be nice, though hitting a light with it will be very difficult.

The sensors do almost nothing. 70m window? Do you know how fast a 3L can cover that? Less than two seconds. And that's assuming they're in the open and running directly at you. The typical engagement with a light is probably about 100m, meaning your 7500 GXP and 2MM cbills grant you basically no advantage over the equipment that's practically free by comparison.

It still does absolutely nothing to address the fact that the 3L and 2D outclass every other light mech by a significant margin. Even if this helps other mechs get a few streaks in, it doesn't change the fact that the 3L and 2D are constantly hitting you with theirs. ECM should not make the mech un-targetable. It should only make enemies in its radius unable to lock on.

These changes make virtually no difference to the game as it's played. You may see slightly more PPCs, which will be largely ineffective against lights with ECM, and streaks will remain overpowered against the rest of the lights.

I hate this argument. Guess what, maybe if you didnt run all medium lasers and SRMs that 3l wouldn't have a chance to get to you! First way you know you ****** up, you let the raven get into streak range in the first place if you don't have the skill to kill him in it.

And why WHY WHY do people keep saying mechs are untargetable? If they are within 200, 220, 250m depending on sensor range, YOU CAN TARGET THEM. Good ******* god, maybe you need to learn that to target people you have to hit the 'R' key. It's so easy, a caveman could do it.

And if you die to a 3L running streaks in a Jenner running any competent setup the problem is between the computer and the chair. Especially after the recent netcode fixes.

[Sagamore]

Orzorn, on 29 January 2013 - 06:22 PM, said:

Heh, I think its more than just a shame that the Death's Kneel was declared DoA so fast because it didn't have ECM.

It seems that they've created a situation where, if a light mech doesn't have ECM and streaks on the same package, its worth is severely depleted.

I bought the Death's Knell because I liked how it looked and I generally prefer energy weapons but now I regret my decision. Every game, I'm been hunted and killed by radar-invisible Raven's who can almost match my top speed with auto-aim ssrms.

The ECM still seems too valuable on light mechs. Maybe AMS needs a buff. The fact that only 4 variants in the entire game can equip ECM, yet I see 3 or 4 of 8 on my team with ECM in public matchmaking is a joke.

[Adrian Steel]

Elkfire, on 29 January 2013 - 05:02 PM, said:

Is elitism glib circle-jerking a requirement for being a Goon, or just a bonus?

Fixed.

Goons don't do justice to elitism.

On a more serious note:

Just to re-iterate what some others have said.... the current batch of ecm softeners are only treating the symptoms, not the problem. Someone influential needs to tell PGI that they will end up with a monstrous cancer of balance by going this route. However, I find it hard to believe PGI wants any semblance of balance in the first place; the most un-subtle arcade console game would stand in rabid applause at their ECM implementation.

Edited by Adrian Steel, 29 January 2013 - 07:19 PM.

[Sable Dove]

hammerreborn, on 29 January 2013 - 06:26 PM, said:

I hate this argument. Guess what, maybe if you didnt run all medium lasers and SRMs that 3l wouldn't have a chance to get to you! First way you know you ****** up, you let the raven get into streak range in the first place if you don't have the skill to kill him in it.

And why WHY WHY do people keep saying mechs are untargetable? If they are within 200, 220, 250m depending on sensor range, YOU CAN TARGET THEM. Good ******* god, maybe you need to learn that to target people you have to hit the 'R' key. It's so easy, a caveman could do it.

And if you die to a 3L running streaks in a Jenner running any competent setup the problem is between the computer and the chair. Especially after the recent netcode fixes.

Yes, let a Raven get into streak range. Because it's so easy to avoid one of the fastest mechs in the game that doesn't show up on radar until it's within streak range. Any half-competent pilot could get any mech in streak range very easily.

Doesn't help that streaks deal huge damage, require no aim, almost never miss, usually bypass AMS, and generate next to no heat.

Maybe you run into truly awful Raven pilots - I know I have on occasion - but any remotely-competent pilot will dominate with a Raven 3L. Don't try to make this about skill. It's not. ECM+Streaks is easy mode.

Also, maybe if you were keen on context, you could figure out that un-targetable simply means that they can't be locked on to. As in, your missiles can't target them. They are effectively un-targetable.


Just for future reference: typing in capital letters and swearing does not make you seem more knowledgeable or competent. It does not garner you any respect.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

I want this stalker:

Quote

STK-3Fb - The 3Fb variant of the Stalker carries a Guardian ECM Suite in the center torso, upgrades the large lasers to extended range versions, and adds Artemis IV fire control systems to the LRM-15s that replace the Jackson LRM-10 launchers. The SRM-6 racks are gone, and the standard heat sinks were replaced with seventeen double heat sinks. BV (2.0) = 2,029

[Viper69]

Chronojam, on 29 January 2013 - 01:01 PM, said:

Stop trying to label others.

Truth must hurt
Oh and tuchet' well played can we get back to assaulting people with robots instead of bickering.

Edited by Viper69, 29 January 2013 - 07:11 PM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

hammerreborn, on 29 January 2013 - 06:26 PM, said:

And why WHY WHY do people keep saying mechs are untargetable? If they are within 200, 220, 250m depending on sensor range, YOU CAN TARGET THEM. Good ******* god, maybe you need to learn that to target people you have to hit the 'R' key. It's so easy, a caveman could do it.

and yet people in this game need ECM and AMS and a red flashing friggin WARNING when missiles are fired at them and they STILL QQ that LRMs are OP rather than stopping being stupid and being out in the open

[hammerreborn]

Sable Dove, on 29 January 2013 - 06:55 PM, said:

Yes, let a Raven get into streak range. Because it's so easy to avoid one of the fastest mechs in the game that doesn't show up on radar until it's within streak range. Any half-competent pilot could get any mech in streak range very easily.

Doesn't help that streaks deal huge damage, require no aim, almost never miss, usually bypass AMS, and generate next to no heat.

Maybe you run into truly awful Raven pilots - I know I have on occasion - but any remotely-competent pilot will dominate with a Raven 3L. Don't try to make this about skill. It's not. ECM+Streaks is easy mode.

Also, maybe if you were keen on context, you could figure out that un-targetable simply means that they can't be locked on to. As in, your missiles can't target them. They are effectively un-targetable.


Just for future reference: typing in capital letters and swearing does not make you seem more knowledgeable or competent. It does not garner you any respect.

Crying about Raven 3Ls doesn't warrant you any respect.

And do you even read the gibberish your write? I guess not with all those tears.

Quote

ECM should not make the mech un-targetable. It should only make enemies in its radius unable to lock on.

So you were saying ECM should not make it so the mech can't be locked onto. It should only make enemies unable to lock on. I have been enlightened!

Not enough facepalms in the world.

And there must be a ton of bad Raven pilots because I've killed 7 so far today in my Jenner, along with 3 spiders, 2 cicadas, and one commando. Which means you must be even more bad because you can't kill those.

As the saying goes, if you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen. If you can't beat a light in a light **** out of the class and you significantly drop your chances at raging at the next 3L to touch you in a bad way because you can't aim.

Quote

and yet people in this game need ECM and AMS and a red flashing friggin WARNING when missiles are fired at them and they STILL QQ that LRMs are OP rather than stopping being stupid and being out in the open

This. People need their easy mode. It's why they rely on weapons like streaks as a crutch, and cry about ECM because they can't use their CoD noobtubes.

Guess what kiddies, a compentently piloted raven 3l with an SRM 6 is far scarier than a ssrm one any day.

Edited by hammerreborn, 29 January 2013 - 07:07 PM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

hammerreborn, on 29 January 2013 - 07:05 PM, said:

And do you even read the gibberish your write? I guess not with all those tears.

speaking of tears see sig.

[Zaptruder]

Soft counters work.

Fix lag shields = Raven 3Ls are run less = Much less of a problem.

Buff PPCs & Modules = more people boating PPCs, ECM interrupts increase, less people sticking solely with ECM mechs.

It's an issue of macro balance. And that's perfectly fine when that's the issue; Mechs like fighting game characters will have different tiers of viability, but overall, there should be a macro scale game balance that makes the overall experience enjoyable, while allowing for a variety of experiences within each game; sometimes you should encounter too many LRMs, sometimes too many lights, sometimes too many ECMs, etc, etc.

Keeps the game interesting; just as long as you're not always encountering too many Raven 3Ls or DDCs.

[Kaspirikay]

I Don't see how PPCs shutting off ECM will help. Most ECM mechs are lights. Those are the ones that can use ECM effectively. Now with a 70m (double upgraded) mod, thats going to be less than a second of lock time before the light that moves 127-139kmph gets in and out of the deadzone. Not much of a fix. But we'll see.

[hammerreborn]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 29 January 2013 - 07:07 PM, said:

speaking of tears see sig.

Lol nice. Probably about as legit as snake oil though.

Quote

I Don't see how PPCs shutting off ECM will help. Most ECM mechs are lights. Those are the ones that can use ECM effectively. Now with a 70m (double upgraded) mod, thats going to be less than a second of lock time before the light that moves 127-139kmph gets in and out of the deadzone. Not much of a fix. But we'll see.

Because it's not exclusively about being able to use streaks. It's also to gather info. Hitting that Atlas shielding his buddies allows the entire team to see all the happy triangles pop up which we all know is the most overpowered thing in the game and the lack thereof turns all puggers into gibbering uncoordinated morons. It also allows your lone rangers to hit the guy jamming him so you can see where your teammate disappeared to to support if necessary.

Edited by hammerreborn, 29 January 2013 - 07:17 PM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Kaspirikay, on 29 January 2013 - 07:14 PM, said:

I Don't see how PPCs shutting off ECM will help. Most ECM mechs are lights. Those are the ones that can use ECM effectively. Now with a 70m (double upgraded) mod, thats going to be less than a second of lock time before the light that moves 127-139kmph gets in and out of the deadzone. Not much of a fix. But we'll see.

What would really fix this is to get rid of the stupid PPC no damage zone (that isnt even TT backed given in TT you can still do damage that close, its just harder to hit at close range. Something they could simulate here with making it harder to bring the weapon to target (I forgot the term for it here) or make it take much longer

hammerreborn, on 29 January 2013 - 07:15 PM, said:

Lol nice. Probably about as legit as snake oil though.

dont care about legit, its funny

[hammerreborn]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 29 January 2013 - 07:20 PM, said:

What would really fix this is to get rid of the stupid PPC no damage zone (that isnt even TT backed given in TT you can still do damage that close, its just harder to hit at close range. Something they could simulate here with making it harder to bring the weapon to target (I forgot the term for it here) or make it take much longer



dont care about legit, its funny

It's really a minimum damage zone, I've facehugged an Awesome like an alien and taken (while not significant enough to kill me) enough damage to never do it again.

Edited by hammerreborn, 29 January 2013 - 07:24 PM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

hammerreborn, on 29 January 2013 - 07:24 PM, said:

It's really a minimum damage zone, I've facehugged an Awesome like an alien and taken (while not significant enough to kill me) enough damage to never do it again.

wait they removed the stupid ppc min range O.o WHEN?!
wooo!

[Stingz]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 29 January 2013 - 07:29 PM, said:

wait they removed the stupid ppc min range O.o WHEN?!
wooo!

It still hurts, but damage starts to fall off. Get close enough and it's a really hot Small Laser.

[hammerreborn]

Basically from what I know and have seen, it's basically a decrease in damage from 90-0. Probably at 10m it actually is more or less 0 but you can still probably do 5 damage or so at 45m.

[Sable Dove]

hammerreborn, on 29 January 2013 - 07:05 PM, said:

So you were saying ECM should not make it so the mech can't be locked onto. It should only make enemies unable to lock on. I have been enlightened!

Not enough facepalms in the world.

Okay, you're right, it makes no sense to argue that ECM should only be disrupt lock ons short range, while not making them virtually immune to LRMs. That makes no sense at all.

hammerreborn, on 29 January 2013 - 07:05 PM, said:

And there must be a ton of bad Raven pilots because I've killed 7 so far today in my Jenner, along with 3 spiders, 2 cicadas, and one commando. Which means you must be even more bad because you can't kill those.

As the saying goes, if you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen. If you can't beat a light in a light **** out of the class and you significantly drop your chances at raging at the next 3L to touch you in a bad way because you can't aim.

I'll be impressed when you do that with a Spider (and not the 5D). With a Jenner, it's quite a bit less impressive.

hammerreborn, on 29 January 2013 - 07:05 PM, said:

People need their easy mode. It's why they rely on weapons like streaks as a crutch, and cry about ECM because they can't use their CoD noobtubes.

Guess what kiddies, a compentently piloted raven 3l with an SRM 6 is far scarier than a ssrm one any day.

So... ECM isn't easy mode, but streaks are. But the ability to play on easy mode while also nullifying other players' easy mode weapons, is somehow not overpowered?




ECM is a problem because it nullifies LRMs, and because it can be mounted on the Raven 3L and Commando 2D with streaks.
If they make it so the ECM's effects are purely offensive (i.e. can be locked on to by anyone who is not in ECM's range), and nerf streaks to where they're balanced, that would solve 90+% of the problems.