258 replies to this topic

[Novakaine]

History Lesson.
The Clan was virtually wiping out every IS regiment it came up against.
Until the IS tech recovered some lostech thats cannon.
This would totally unblance everything in MWO.
As everybody and their sainted mothers would be driving clan tech.
With hours of the first clan mech release.
I know all you Clanners are dying to get that Madcat, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.
At All.
If PGI sticks to the timeline we'll get pieces of Clan tech from Wolf's Dragons.
But a Clan Mech not for a long long time.
Perkins!

[Kristov Kerensky]

Novakaine, on 30 January 2013 - 09:03 PM, said:

History Lesson.
The Clan was virtually wiping out every IS regiment it came up against.
Until the IS tech recovered some lostech thats cannon.
This would totally unblance everything in MWO.
As everybody and their sainted mothers would be driving clan tech.
With hours of the first clan mech release.
I know all you Clanners are dying to get that Madcat, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.
At All.
If PGI sticks to the timeline we'll get pieces of Clan tech from Wolf's Dragons.
But a Clan Mech not for a long long time.
Perkins!

Actually..a bit off there..the Clans were MOSTLY unstoppable for the first 2 years of the Invasion..mostly, not totally. They did lose a few rather important battles before Tukayyid, Wolcott and Luthien spring to mind. It wasn't lostech that saved the day, it was the Kurita forces using the Clans own rules of combat against them and fighting as a team instead of their standard giant free fall all 1v1 combat tactics that so many of the DCMS practiced. Then ComStar with the help of Clan Wolf set up a great trap on Tukayyid and defeated the Clans and forced the Truce.

And yes, the Clan tech would be OP and totally unbalanced in regards to IS tech, which is rather the point of the Clans in the first place.

[h00n]

All I know is that there will be much QQ once I whip out my wallet and buy a Timber Wolf Alt D and make the ECM lights cry with my double heat sinks, ER PPCs, Quad rack of SSRM6's, 90kph, and as much armor as an Awesome.

I can only HOPE they make the drops 5 v 8, I won't even care if I lose.

[Lindonius]

Kristov Kerensky, on 30 January 2013 - 09:28 PM, said:

Actually..a bit off there..the Clans were MOSTLY unstoppable for the first 2 years of the Invasion..mostly, not totally. They did lose a few rather important battles before Tukayyid, Wolcott and Luthien spring to mind.

I vaguely seem to remember that one of the spoils of winning the Battle of Walcott was the turning over of 5 clan battlemechs to the Draconis Combine.

[Iwaslost]

I for one look forward to the challenge and though I will pick up a Mad Dog and a Timberwolf I will still run my wonder for IS mechs because they look so damn good.

[Termius]

If they implement clans where IS have the number superiority then people will need to focus fire. Just because our tech is obsolete doesn't mean it can't kill. Sticking together and teamwork would be more essential then ever. I hope the integrated team coms are introduced before clans, otherwise regardless of how they implement them matchs are going to be ugly.

It doesn't matter how good your Timberwolf is when your staring down the barrels of 3 atlases.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Lindonius, on 30 January 2013 - 09:35 PM, said:

I vaguely seem to remember that one of the spoils of winning the Battle of Walcott was the turning over of 5 clan battlemechs to the Draconis Combine.

Indeed, which is why my suggestion had that some IS units could get some Clan Mechs within this next year, there are battles lost for the Clans which garner good salvage for the IS, so the canon precedent is there for it. Like I said, you get the Clan Mech, whatever it's configuration is, that's what it stays, you can't customize them if you are IS, not something the IS can do for many years yet. Until after Tukayyid, there's not many times the Clans lost a battle, and those were in Kurita space, so..it would be House Kurita forces and Mercs working for them that would be eligible for that prize.

After Tukayyid, when ComStar has more of that salvage, then PGI could run open contests/giveaways for everyone to enter.

[Bhael Fire]

Termius, on 30 January 2013 - 09:42 PM, said:

It doesn't matter how good your Timberwolf is when your staring down the barrels of 3 atlases.

This. This...is what I've been saying throughout this entire thread...
I think a lot of people underestimate the power of strength through numbers...

[Suprentus]

To everyone saying with absolute certainty that IS mechs can't equip Clan tech because it wasn't available or in supremely rare numbers, at least consider this: We already know that PGI isn't sticking 100% to the timeline if it means bringing us more content or balancing things. For one, don't we have the Awesome 9M before it even canonically went into production? Furthermore, aren't Highlanders supposed to be super rare at this point in the timeline, yet they'll be easily available to all? I'm sure there are other mechs/variants/content that don't entirely belong if canon has anything to say about it.

So I don't find it too much of a stretch for PGI to allow Clan tech in IS Mechs. The way I see it, is that balance easily comes from the level of customizability. Clan Omnimechs can switch out weapon pods but can't change engine, armor, etc., while IS Mechs are restricted to their hardpoints, but can customize engine, armor, etc. So to me, it seems like a question of what kind of customizing do you want.

If anything, I'd expect we'd see Clan tech in IS Mechs in less than a year from the Clan Invasion. Sure, it's supposed to take a few years, but it may really not.

Edited by Suprentus, 30 January 2013 - 10:00 PM.

[Tincan Nightmare]

The problem with Clan tech is that some factors that mitigated it don't exist in MWO. There is no battle value system in place (at least currently) to try to make matchmaking result in even sides or teams. Also the Clan rules of engagement of only firing at one target at a time and not combining fire (at least until the other side violated those rules) will not exist except by a few role players. Couple that with weapons that are lighter, more compact, and in some cases that do more damage, and even 5 to 8 probably wont be even. Looking at some of the popular builds being used now, imagine that same build with the benefits of Clan tech. An A1 Cat could have 6 SSRM6's, or depending on how they implent hardpoints (if any) 12 standard SRM6's. Or the Clan equivalent of the K2 AC20 Cat, except mounting 2 UAC20's with a savings of 4 tons. Or fire suppot mechs carrying 6 or 8 LRM20's, that also have no minimum range. Yah Clan tech is going to make me wish MWO was set during the 4th Succession War.

[smokefield]

Personally I think that clan tech cannot be implemented in this game and keep the balance.

It seems that everyone thinks --- aa..just add clan tech and it will work somehow..but they forget the political/tactical situation in those times... that clans were an invasion force, they were attackers and they were outnumbered. The balance came from this - the clans were outnumbered and they were invading unknown lands, defendede with both mechs and static defence, they encountered all the problems an invading force does.

But in this game we cannot simulate the same environement (I wish though) - so introducing clan tech as it is will break the game. That leaves us with some other possibilities :

1. clan tech will be introduced but will be nerfed to match IS in some way.
2. matchmaking will be done in a way that will create the game with a diffrent number of players IS vs Clans..like 8 vs 4 or smth

Making clan tech very expensive, regardless of MC or CB or whatever will not solve the problems - there are ppl that WILL buy the tech because they want it and there are ppl who want to P4W and will buy the tech hoping to win. So pgi will achieve a short term buff of their money but in the long run they will lose a lot of players that cannot buy/use the clan tech.

another possibility would be to play clan tech only as sigle player - in some form of campaign, or even multiplayer campaign vs NPC's....so the players can use the tech vs computer in some missions/campaigns. This will give everyone what they wanted for a time..but ppl will start asking the introduce the tech in PvP games too in the end. So we will be in the same spot after a time.


I don't see other ways...but I am curious

[Bhael Fire]

Suprentus, on 30 January 2013 - 09:59 PM, said:

If anything, I'd expect we'd see Clan tech in IS Mechs in less than a year from the Clan Invasion. Sure, it's supposed to take a few years, but it may really not.

Nope. Ain't gonna happen. I will wager my account on it.

Clan tech is for clan mechs. Period. End of line.

IS mechs will be waging war with Clan mechs using their own respective technologies.

Believe.

[Biruke]

Dirkdaring, on 30 January 2013 - 03:47 PM, said:

Clan LRM-20

5 tons
4 crit slots
No minimum range

Need I say more?

quantity of missiles in one tonn?

I want a Clan Mech, but want to play for the IS. I don't like Clanners.

[Dream Seaker]

Broceratops, on 30 January 2013 - 02:56 PM, said:

they're going to monetize the **** out of it somehow. clan tech is just as valuable in RL as it is in the lore. it's been presented as such in every MW game for good reason.

PGI would be be fools to not do something that will result more or less in clan tech = $$$. even if it's something like making each mech $100 million cbills on the basis that they're so rare so they're marked up in value 5x, so to get any of them you either have to play 600 games or fork over 40 bucks.

i would totally pay $40 just to have my shadowcat again...i miss it so much... :'(

[Suprentus]

Bhael Fire, on 30 January 2013 - 10:15 PM, said:

Nope. Ain't gonna happen. I will wager my account on it.

Clan tech is for clan mechs. Period. End of line.

IS mechs will be waging war with Clan mechs using their own respective technologies.

Believe.

I'll take your word for it then, since you work at PGI.

[Adrienne Vorton]

my problem is, the damage output in the game, and thus the gamespeed are at a level right now, where i would see it WHEN clans arrive... if i imagine much heavier alpha-strike builds due to the fact that most clanstuff weighs less and takes less critspace (30% more DHS possible, just to name one) , the killing speed can only increase largely...

i was saying that before CBT ended, that the damage feels too much already, the game too fast paced... honestly, this MIGHT be countered a bit IF people wouldactually play more defensive...

since this is a personal decission everyone makesfor himself, this is just not gonna happen in 80% of the matches... those 80% will always be rush-matches and zerg-crushes... and with clantech go a large step more forward to onehit-kills...

summary: not saying clantech will break the game, just saying the damage-value is too high NOW...

[Ashla Mason]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: the trick to balancing clan tech is

1) not letting IS players get it
2) Using it to balance out IS advantages

Lets get down to brass tacks here: the clans need there tech edge in order to fight the odds that they have traditionally faced when going up against the inner sphere (unless the clan was seriously pissed the target they consistently went in with a lesser number of troops then there opponent.) and to not be utterly crippled by Zell when there opponents are probably going to violate it for ***** and giggles anyway.

Seiously: you take away indirect fire, free fire, equal teams and and all sorts of other common tactics and the odds swing very quickly away from clan players.

[Iacov]

this poll is biased and bears no knowledge gain at all

[Nankam]

You can't enforce the Clan's code of conduct but you can easily enforce a numerical disadvantage by having players using clantech take up more player slots in a game than inner sphere players.

For example, let's say Clan mechs take up two player slots in a game. A team of only clanmechs taking on a team of only inner sphere mechs would then be a 4v8 affair. You could of course adjust the number to 3 player slots or whatever is "balanced," and could also increase the number of players per side if the servers and netcode can take it eventually.

[pedropars]

Well i dont think it will break the game but there will be epic QQING for sure,it seems 75% of the game community complains about pretty much any content the devs add or change.