258 replies to this topic

[Corvus Antaka]

hehe I can see it now. They keep unnerfing ECM, the clans show up with SSRM6 and CLRMS and everyone screams "bring back the old ECM"

[Taemien]

I don't see what the big fuss is. The only weapons that clans have that will be an issue is:

ER Medium Lasers - same tonnage as the medium laser, little more heat, little more damage, and twice the range. Er Meds are going to be crazy when put in pairs or quads.
Large Pulse Lasers - twice the range and a little more damage then the iS ones. I would actually like to use these. I don't think they will be too OP, but they will add another dynamic to the field
SSRM6s - if released before the SSRM change that will have them target arm/leg hardpoints randomly, these can be a problem. If done after it will be no different then being hit by a LRM 10/15.

Weapons that are overestimated:

UAC20s - Will be flinging those rounds all over the place. UAC5s already do and lets not even touch the jamming aspect.
ER PPCs - 15 damage, sounds like a gauss rifle. Its still 15 heat and you still have to aim/lead the things.
LRMs - half weight of the IS counterpart and no minimum range sounds scary. Till you take into account they direct fire. Now they are like streaks but don't follow as well. They will be good to fire in melee without a lock though. Cover however will neuter them.

What will be an issue is how fast the clan mechs will go in comparison to similar loaded out IS mechs. This can be balanced by torso and arm mobility. Remember, clanners duel. They don't show backs to one another. Why would their mechs be designed for 'dishonorable' fighting tactics? Treat all their mechs as if they have no lower arm actuators and decrease their torso twist range by 10-20 degrees compared to IS mechs.

That will force clan mechs into limited roles.

Long range snipers and fast skirmishers.

IS will have Brawlers and Indirect Fire Support as their specialty.



Oh! And lets not forget one thing: C3 Computer

Clan mechs will be unable to share any targeting data with their teammates.


Now we have no need for weight, BV, or anything like that to artifically balance the teams, it can be simple 8v8/12v12 battles.

[Ashla Mason]

Nankam, on 30 January 2013 - 11:39 PM, said:

You can't enforce the Clan's code of conduct but you can easily enforce a numerical disadvantage by having players using clantech take up more player slots in a game than inner sphere players.

For example, let's say Clan mechs take up two player slots in a game. A team of only clanmechs taking on a team of only inner sphere mechs would then be a 4v8 affair. You could of course adjust the number to 3 player slots or whatever is "balanced," and could also increase the number of players per side if the servers and netcode can take it eventually.

"Enforcing" clan honor isn't as hard as you might think if clan players start taking hits to their XP and cash flow for engaging in IS style free for alls.

All it takes is reworking the game's economy system to reflect Zells tennets.

[DeeSaster]

I am missing "currently the game is fine, clan tech will add a new layer" option.

[Warma]

Bishop Steiner, on 30 January 2013 - 02:48 PM, said:

The point.... if Clan Tech is easily, readily available to all, every single Inner Sphere mech become instantly obsoleted, and within a month, only new people grinding trial mechs will be using them. And any and all competitive tournaments will basically be mandatory Clan Tech only affairs.

Unbalanced matchmaking by numbers - 5 Clan to 11 IS mechs or somesuch and the fights will be just fine.

[Bagheera]

Bishop Steiner, on 30 January 2013 - 02:48 PM, said:

So, not to be a doom monger, but does anyone realistically see a happy ending to the Clans being introduced? If so.. how?

Not to be cynical, but has PGI been able to do, change, add, or otherwise alter anything without epic levels of QQ?

For that matter, has any game since the advent of community forums?

[LordDante]

all will fall for my mighty wang!

[machine]

Silent, on 30 January 2013 - 03:04 PM, said:

They can't even give the community ECM without everyone wetting their pants in rage. Don't even bother with the Clans at this rate.

amen. except do it anyway. they will cry ............and in a month after that they will be like "You Inner Sphere weapon noobs"....

[Levon K]

More toys to play with. Nuff said.

[Cataphract]

Clans should first and formost be introdiced ONLY as AI opponants. Its the easiest way to gauge whether or not its even worth giving Clan tech to the masses and would offer good PVE content to enjoy, pass time waiting for friends to log on, or wait your 8 man to form up. Hell they could even add special PVE only rewards. If they impliment Clan tech the same way they've transferd TT values of IS tech in this game then Clan tech will destroy any and all reason to use anything other than Clan tech ever again. At that point they might as well have made this a game without the IS all together. Matching 8 vs 5 or two IS for every one Clan mechs is a trash system and didn't even work in TT that well or ever in general. Any person in a Clan mech that can aim even moderately straight would trash an IS mech in seconds. Not to mention not a single Clan weapon would have even one meter of a minimum range. Say hello to 160+ point blank alpha LRM missile boat! Then all you'll hear is QQing from puggers that cant afford Clan tech getting regularly stomped by Clan mechs then ***** until they're seperated into a new qeue which then has a lack of active users to support so never gets used. Just like the 8 man qeue! In no way do I support giving Clan tech to anyone untill its first implimented as AI only or is tested for MONTHS under a community test server berfore ever being useable by anyone. I would like to see useable Clan tech, but if the devs want it done right its gonna take a very long time to get there without screwing up everything.

[Joseph Mallan]

Bagheera, on 31 January 2013 - 01:19 AM, said:

Not to be cynical, but has PGI been able to do, change, add, or otherwise alter anything without epic levels of QQ?

For that matter, has any game since the advent of community forums?

But is that PGIs fault or the community's?

I foresee a thread that demands separation of IS and Clan in the future!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 31 January 2013 - 05:25 AM.

[Biruke]

Cataphract, on 31 January 2013 - 02:56 AM, said:

Clans should first and formost be introdiced ONLY as AI opponants. Its the easiest way to gauge whether or not its even worth giving Clan tech to the masses and would offer good PVE content to enjoy, pass time waiting for friends to log on, or wait your 8 man to form up. Hell they could even add special PVE only rewards. If they impliment Clan tech the same way they've transferd TT values of IS tech in this game then Clan tech will destroy any and all reason to use anything other than Clan tech ever again. At that point they might as well have made this a game without the IS all together. Matching 8 vs 5 or two IS for every one Clan mechs is a trash system and didn't even work in TT that well or ever in general. Any person in a Clan mech that can aim even moderately straight would trash an IS mech in seconds. Not to mention not a single Clan weapon would have even one meter of a minimum range. Say hello to 160+ point blank alpha LRM missile boat! Then all you'll hear is QQing from puggers that cant afford Clan tech getting regularly stomped by Clan mechs then ***** until they're seperated into a new qeue which then has a lack of active users to support so never gets used. Just like the 8 man qeue! In no way do I support giving Clan tech to anyone untill its first implimented as AI only or is tested for MONTHS under a community test server berfore ever being useable by anyone. I would like to see useable Clan tech, but if the devs want it done right its gonna take a very long time to get there without screwing up everything.

AI? Another 2 years of development?

[MustrumRidcully]

I have strong doubts that it will be implemented in a manner that will immediately satisfy most players. I expect the results to be broken in some way. Most likely in my estimation is that "stock" Clan mechs will be much too hot, but customized Clan mechs will be extremely powerful and the match-making system will not yet handle this. It is also not unlikely that the way Clan tech becomes available to players will be unsatisfactory for many. I doubt a bit it will require MC expenditure, this would likely cause accusations of P2W and all that, and it will kinda violate the point of F2P if such an essential content element is still behind a paywall.

[Thirdstar]

MustrumRidcully, on 31 January 2013 - 06:02 AM, said:

I have strong doubts that it will be implemented in a manner that will immediately satisfy most players. I expect the results to be broken in some way. Most likely in my estimation is that "stock" Clan mechs will be much too hot, but customized Clan mechs will be extremely powerful and the match-making system will not yet handle this. It is also not unlikely that the way Clan tech becomes available to players will be unsatisfactory for many. I doubt a bit it will require MC expenditure, this would likely cause accusations of P2W and all that, and it will kinda violate the point of F2P if such an essential content element is still behind a paywall.

I'm hoping they'll pull a rabbit out of a hat with regards to Clantech implementation but I'm not holding my breath. My surely unpopular and wholly unrealistic opinion is that Clans really shouldn't enter into the equation until several years into the game's life.

[HiplyRustic]

Booran, on 30 January 2013 - 02:52 PM, said:

Whiners gonna whine regardless if the whole game is adjusted, tweaked, revolutionized, overhauled, waxed, patched, sewn or left untouched.
We should listen more to those who weigh pros against cons, and those who see past "well why break something OP, I was winning?"
What I'm hoping for is that clans and CW will mesh together with the base game we have now and lift it to proper quality heights.

edit: gosh I sound like I should get down from my high horse, sorry for sounding pretentious (spelling)

In other words you have no idea how to balance vastly superior tech from the Clans against IS mechs in a way that keeps people playing both, or you've decided to keep it a secret. Got it.

Broceratops, on 30 January 2013 - 02:56 PM, said:

they're going to monetize the **** out of it somehow. clan tech is just as valuable in RL as it is in the lore. it's been presented as such in every MW game for good reason.

PGI would be be fools to not do something that will result more or less in clan tech = $$$. even if it's something like making each mech $100 million cbills on the basis that they're so rare so they're marked up in value 5x, so to get any of them you either have to play 600 games or fork over 40 bucks.

This would then make the game demonstrably and loudly P2W and the game will get savaged on every public reviewing site on the planet for it.

Edited by HiplyRustic, 31 January 2013 - 06:35 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Thirdstar, on 31 January 2013 - 06:26 AM, said:

I'm hoping they'll pull a rabbit out of a hat with regards to Clantech implementation but I'm not holding my breath. My surely unpopular and wholly unrealistic opinion is that Clans really shouldn't enter into the equation until several years into the game's life.

Unrealistic...probably. But not unreasonable.

[Whompity]

I don't know if this is possible or not, but what I'D like to see happen is:

- Clan tech mechs can't drop with IS mechs. You are match-made to be a clan-only drop.
- Clan mechs have the appropriate clan tech. No nerfs.
- Clan drop teams are 5 or 6 vs IS full 8 drops
- Clans can drop against each other at full strength.

IIRC, clan mechs often fought superior numbers with their superior tech. That would be interesting, I think, and fairly easy to pull off. How many clan mechs would be "fair" against 8 inner sphere? 5? 6?

Edited by Olivia Maybach, 31 January 2013 - 06:38 AM.

[HiplyRustic]

Joseph Mallan, on 30 January 2013 - 03:16 PM, said:

See heres the rub Bishop, I am buying into this game expecting the Clans to roll the Inner sphere for about 2 years. The Clans literally obliterated hundreds of commands. Mercilessly crushed everything in their path. Anything less and we will not be playing the Clan Invasion.

And in tonight's performance the part of the clueless ***** still playing IS in this scenario is...

Someone?

Anyone?

[Joseph Mallan]

Joseph Mallan.

[Thirdstar]

Joseph Mallan, on 31 January 2013 - 06:35 AM, said:

Unrealistic...probably. But not unreasonable.

Reason yields when the mighty dollar speaks.

As people have pointed out, PGI and by extension IGP would be lynched by shareholders if they didn't monetize a highly popular part of Battletech/Mechwarrior.