242 replies to this topic

[1453 R]

Victor, you're missing Void's point.

You're arguing that on a scale of one to ten, a weapon is either a nine (PPCs, Gauss...and that's about it), or it's a two (ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING ELSE NO EXCEPTIONS). There is no in between, there is no 'acceptable but not cut-throat optimal' - there is Good, and there is GET THAT [REDACTED] OFF MY TEAM.

Void is arguing that while there are weapons in the nine range of the scale (PPCs, Gauss), and weapons on the two scale (poor large pulsers...), there are also weapons in the four to six bracket. There are weapons which are all right, in the sorts of Elo ranges a newer player is likely to find themselves in - not great, but not bad.

You're trying to get every single new player in the game to play the same, identical BattleMechs so as to draw attention to balance metrics and get Piranha to fix guns that need fixing. This would be an idea, if it didn't also mean losing new players significantly faster than we already are, as well as decreasing the existing player base to even more alarming levels.

People are going to play what they're going to play, Victor. You can't argue new -player configurations and tactics from the standpoint of a bloodthirsty, hypercompetitive 12-manner with his nose as high in the air as his Highlander's ball bearings. You've got to remember that down here where the rest of us low-brow Neanderthals play, there's more than Good and GEE TEE EFF OH, ROOKIE. There may not be a range for you, up in the stratified heights of ruthless competitiveness none of the rest of us can aspire to, but there's a range for the rest of us, man.

There are sixes down here, Victor You remember sixes?

Edited by 1453 R, 13 August 2013 - 07:02 PM.

[Victor Morson]

And you guys are missing my point that this is a guide to "Which equipment makes you succeed." Period.

As far as the team aspect is concerned, if this thread replaces even one poor pilot that's been steered into running AC/5s and MGs or wasting tonnage on a single LRM/10 to something that both helps the team and the pilot succeed, then mission accomplished.

When I say never, ever take a weapon I am strictly saying "Never ever take it, if you want to do well." Which is nothing but the truth.

EDIT: Also I agree there are those in-between weapons. Ultra AC/5s are one such gun: It's actually fairly decent but you'd never really see them used competitively.

You could make a case that LRMs are suitable for pugging at the moment (I'd make a case they aren't thanks to the insane ghost heat given to the smaller launchers, but just barely) but are in no way suited for competitive games yet. However, if you'll notice, I only say to make sure you are carrying enough missiles-per-salvo to crack AMS, and not to "never touch them" even though I'd likely never field an LRM boat as they are in a serious match.

The weapons I list as "do not touch" are well below that standard and should be avoided unless you are purposely taking a bad build. But again this thread isn't to recommend silly builds or amusing builds, it's successful builds. All information is towards that end.

Edited by Victor Morson, 13 August 2013 - 09:13 PM.

[Parliment]

Use the cheesiest builds you can. Because the other guy is going to !!!!!!!!
Amen

[Victor Morson]

supernachos, on 13 August 2013 - 09:30 PM, said:

Use the cheesiest builds you can. Because the other guy is going to !!!!!!!!
Amen

I remember MechWarrior: Living Legends had a massively overpowered Large Pulse Laser that went ignored for a few patches. So several members of my unit started rolling 4 LPL tanks, just obliterating everyone much in the same way the current meta obliterates other designs here.

Here's where the two game bases divide:
1- In Living Legends the complaints came swiftly, and soon, everyone was catching on and exploiting it to the max
2- In MechWarrior: Online everyone tries to defend the other weapons as "just as good" and doesn't do that.

Result? One patch later they looked at the state of the game, went "Oh crap!" and fixed LPLs. While in MW:O we have repeated posts about how "close weapons are to where they should be."

If everyone ran the most deadly "cheesy" configurations and stopped trying to force bad guns to be good, they'd probably fix the guns. By saying "The LBX/10 isn't great but I use it all the time!" you are really saying "Because this gun is being used, no one will address it's failings."

Edited by Victor Morson, 13 August 2013 - 11:58 PM.

[Marmon Rzohr]

I too like to run builds that are fun.

Also I tried and continue to test mechs with all kinds of weapon configurations. It very entertaining and one could say it's an essential aspect of the game.

However it would be much nicer if more of these builds weren't underpowered. (if you're trying to win a game, it takes much less effort, to win with a nice sniper build or a standard brawler build). This simply isn't fair.

I agree that people should be united in saying hey this weapon is bad. Make it better. That's, I believe, one of the reasons that the Awesome rework is (finally!) on the horizon. (by that i mean has no fixed date and is low on the PGI list, but hey, they admitted it and have it on the radar)

Think of the impression it would make if we had a big poll and every single forum user called the lower tier weapons (pulse lasers, lbx, ac5/10, etc) what they are. Situational rubbish. It wouldn't be: "ah it's those "pro" players bitching, we have a larger crowd that pays and plays"

That being said a Gauss + PPC nerf is coming (they plan to de-sync the firing times). Nothing has been said about making everything else better though... which is kinda annoying. But at least it will give the sniping back to the heavies, if does work.

Source: Ask the Devs #44

(I am not the type of guy to say... hey PGI is crap. They've got a lot to do and it's not easy. That's why if the community is focused enough, we can help guide the process)

P.S. They are shortening pulse laser beam duration. Which will make the SMPL and the MPL a bit more "okay" for the jenner and spider respectively and the LPL still far too garbage, IMHO

Edited by Marmon Rzohr, 14 August 2013 - 01:19 AM.

[MnDragon]

Victor Morson, on 13 August 2013 - 09:08 PM, said:

When I say never, ever take a weapon I am strictly saying "Never ever take it, if you want to do well." Which is nothing but the truth.

If I wanted to play a game where there was only one successful build as you purport, I would play spades. Victor, I think you are confused on what this post is about. You are one hand telling new players that in order to be successful, they need to spend their time mastering the Gauss+PPC build. Then in the other hand, you are talking about how if we all only run said build, PGI will have to nerf it. So in effect, you are crippling the new player when that nerf happens, because they will have never experimented like the rest of us. Quite honestly, you are a sheep. You are following the meta in order to be good rather than branching out and finding new ways to be good. In Biology, that is referred to as an evolutionary dead-end. If you fail to grow and learn, and only use what everyone else uses, then you fail to evolve, and you too Victor shall be crippled when the PPC+Gauss nerf happens. I for one, hate using PPC and Gauss. Gauss rifles explode way too easily, taking whatever component they are in with them, and PPC generate so much damn heat that you have to carry 4 double heat sinks extra per weapon to be effective. I'd rather carry 2 medium lasers at 1 slot and 1 ton a piece and generate far less heat to equal one PPC, but that is just me. I'm not trying to purport that my build is the be all end all build of super Meta Might. To the new player who stumbled into this muck...I suggest you take the time to play with all the weapons, learn what YOU like. Learn what works for YOU. Take others' suggestions and start there, but don't get roped into the meta. By following the Meta, you perpetuate the Meta and create the Meta. Don't become a sheep. To Victor, PGI has more important things to do than to nerf PPC and Gauss. They are trying to get this game out and running in about a month. I personally think that fixing the FPS in 12v12 and setting us multiple drops other than 12 is way more important than nerfing weapons. Is it the Meta, yes. Is it the only good successful build out there...no. My unit proves it time and time again. And WE are not sheep.

[PanzerMagier]

Padic, on 25 July 2013 - 06:42 AM, said:

Yeah, this is an extraordinarily narrow minded checklist. Pretty awful across the board.

Even Number 2, which seems pretty sound, falls apart when you start your reasoning. Defending the base from caps is more than just the fast mech's problem.

Even the slowest of Assaults have some responsibility to prevent a cap loss. Mostly, by positioning themselves carefully at the start of the match - which can drastically help to reduce the odds of a base trade.

It's sad that regardless how narrow minded this list is, it's true.
I recently introduced someone to MWO. Gave them this guide as a laugh.

"Thanks dude the game is great ,but it's getting stale now that 2ppcs gauss is the only good thing to run." I haven't seen him online since.

[Victor Morson]

MnDragon, on 14 August 2013 - 04:42 AM, said:

If I wanted to play a game where there was only one successful build as you purport, I would play spades. Victor, I think you are confused on what this post is about. You are one hand telling new players that in order to be successful, they need to spend their time mastering the Gauss+PPC build. Then in the other hand, you are talking about how if we all only run said build, PGI will have to nerf it.

I'm talking about buffing all the terrible weapons people are clinging to. If they stopped playing them entirely, they'd get a second look.

MnDragon, on 14 August 2013 - 04:42 AM, said:

So in effect, you are crippling the new player when that nerf happens, because they will have never experimented like the rest of us.

Oh no, they'd have to learn a new weapon system?

MnDragon, on 14 August 2013 - 04:42 AM, said:

Quite honestly, you are a sheep. You are following the meta in order to be good rather than branching out and finding new ways to be good. In Biology, that is referred to as an evolutionary dead-end. If you fail to grow and learn, and only use what everyone else uses, then you fail to evolve, and you too Victor shallbe crippled when the PPC+Gauss nerf happens.

No I won't. If that combo disappeared tomorrow, we'd go twin Gauss. If that disappeared, we'd go SRM. If another weapon becomes worthwhile, we'll move to that.

I've been through many metagames in this game.

MnDragon, on 14 August 2013 - 04:42 AM, said:

I for one, hate using PPC and Gauss. Gauss rifles explode way too easily, taking whatever component they are in with them, and PPC generate so much damn heat that you have to carry 4 double heat sinks extra per weapon to be effective. I'd rather carry 2 medium lasers at 1 slot and 1 ton a piece and generate far less heat to equal one PPC, but that is just me.

You are very right, it's just you. Those drawbacks are minimal.

MnDragon, on 14 August 2013 - 04:42 AM, said:

I'm not trying to purport that my build is the be all end all build of super Meta Might. To the new player who stumbled into this muck...I suggest you take the time to play with all the weapons, learn what YOU like. Learn what works for YOU.

And I suggest, new player reading this, that you don't waste time with broken guns - or check them out for amusement sometime, but never ever use them on a "serious build."

MnDragon, on 14 August 2013 - 04:42 AM, said:

Take others' suggestions and start there, but don't get roped into the meta. By following the Meta, you perpetuate the Meta and create the Meta. Don't become a sheep.

There were many, many armies who claimed dominate military tactics of their era were overblown and unnecessary. You don't hear much about them, because they all got wiped out.

The only way the meta changes at this point, now that it's been mapped out, is external factors. If PGI changes something - ala the SRM buff - the meta changes. Past that, there's so few working weapons that the meta is very, very easy to figure out.

MnDragon, on 14 August 2013 - 04:42 AM, said:

To Victor, PGI has more important things to do than to nerf PPC and Gauss. They are trying to get this game out and running in about a month.

1- Fixing the weapons, without ghost heat, takes about a half hour in a text editor. I'm not worried about their time on this one.
2- The fact they're even talking release with so many broken weapons is very unsettling.

MnDragon, on 14 August 2013 - 04:42 AM, said:

I personally think that fixing the FPS in 12v12 and setting us multiple drops other than 12 is way more important than nerfing weapons. Is it the Meta, yes. Is it the only good successful build out there...no. My unit proves it time and time again. And WE are not sheep.

What unit are you in? If your unit uses non-meta weapons I would happily invite you to scrimmage with the Blazing Aces, on the condition you will allow us to record and use the footage as we'd like. Perhaps we can put everything you just said to rest.

EDIT: I had banners off for a second. 1st Ras? Challenge still stands. I hope you accept so I can add the resulting video the OP.

Edited by Victor Morson, 14 August 2013 - 06:20 AM.

[qki]

OP, do everyone a favor and get off the damn internet.

This sad excuse of a "guide" is so fundamentally wrong, it's right there with Honey Boo Boo and kids' beauty paegents.

Going by your standards, the small laser is the only weapon worth using, period. And anyone who uses anything but small lasers (ok, I'll allow medium lasers) is playing the game wrong. Here's a weapon with the best damage/tonnage ratio of all weapons, and one that lets you take the optimal mix of firepower and heatsinks...

NOT.

You see, the PPC, ERPPC, and LPL are all different animals.


Pssst, I'll tell you a secret: Range only matters if you're not in it.
The ERPPC has better range, and no minimum range, so it SEEMS like it's better than a regular PPC, but as long as your target is within 90-540m, the PPC is strictly better than the ER version.

The ERPPC is better within 90m, but inside 300m, the LPL beats them both, by having a tad more damage, less heat per discharge, better cycle, AND being a hitscan weapon.

That's all from a purely mathematic standpoint. Damage-wise, two MLs will do the same as a single PPC, with less heat, and MUCH less weight.


Where does the LL stand on this? It is lighter than a LPL, has slightly less damage, and a slightly better heat profile. Two extra heatsinks make that even better, BUT... that's 6 slots. Not always available. Also hardpoints. That's the real crux of the matter. Hardpoint restrictions. Sometimes you have the tonnage to take your pick of PPC/ERPPC/LPL over the LL, but not the hardpoints or slots to use those extra 2 tons the LL gives you.


If theres a SOLID piece of advice to give new players, is to not take a zillion different weapon systems.

You have 2 mouse buttons, and probably a third one (wheel) that's a little less ergonomic to press. With any sort of gaming mouse (even a cheap one) you probably get two more buttons to use, for a total of 4 (+1).

Stick to 3, maximum of 4 weapon groups, and you'll be fine. Mixing SRM, SSRM, long, and short range weapons is a recipe for disaster, as it will cause a helmet fire, giving you more weapon groups than you can realistically control, or forcing you to put mismatched weapons in a single group - not a good idea either.

Edited by qki, 14 August 2013 - 07:00 AM.

[CSPshala]

Checklist of things not to do:

[X] Play MWO

[MnDragon]

Victor, I would have quoted what you said in regards to my post, but sadly everything that you wrote is much the same as Charlie Brown's Teacher talking....Wawawawawawawa. It is obvious that I can neither dissuade you from your opinion, nor get you to grasp the reality that every weapon has its uses. So with that being said, it is in your right to opine, regardless of the tripe that issues forth. I yield the field to you sir. This is your post, write whatever you wish. As for the challenge, I will take it up with my unit commander, if he feels it is worth our time to scrimmage against a merc unit, then he will be in contact with your leadership to set it up.

[Ph30nix]

your # 1 almost made me not bother reading the rest of your post.....


not that it was 100% wrong but wrong enough

[Liquid Leopard]

qki, on 14 August 2013 - 06:55 AM, said:

...If theres a SOLID piece of advice to give new players, is to not take a zillion different weapon systems.

You have 2 mouse buttons, and probably a third one (wheel) that's a little less ergonomic to press. With any sort of gaming mouse (even a cheap one) you probably get two more buttons to use, for a total of 4 (+1).

Stick to 3, maximum of 4 weapon groups, and you'll be fine. Mixing SRM, SSRM, long, and short range weapons is a recipe for disaster, as it will cause a helmet fire, giving you more weapon groups than you can realistically control, or forcing you to put mismatched weapons in a single group - not a good idea either.

+1

I'd also like to add that on certain examples of my builds I like to use the left mouse button for weapons on the left arm, right button for weapons on the right arm, and mouse wheel for torso-mounted weapons IF I'm pretty sure I won't need to fire the torso weapons at the same time as the other weapons.

If I have a 4th weapon group, I have to fire it from the keyboard, so it has to be LRMs.

Edited by Liquid Leopard, 14 August 2013 - 08:08 AM.

[qki]

I did an in-depth look at button ergonomics in WoW once, but that's a totally different control scheme.
Having all your weapon groups at your fingertips (literally) helps a lot. It also helps to give some thought to those groups.

I used LA/RA/CT grouping, or Primary/Secondary grouping. Honestly - either one works fine. If there is a big NO-NO is to never mix travel and hitscan weapons in one group - firing both with the same trigger really screwes up your aiming unless you are shooting a stationary target.

[Shifty Eyes]

Haha, well it doesn't look like anyone will be changing their opinions based on this thread. The pros have too much time and reputation investment in the game to bend, and most other more casual players will just not care that much.

Marmon Rzohr, on 13 August 2013 - 11:17 AM, said:

<snip>

I haven't looked at it that way, but after reading your post, I do agree with you. It is good for new players to have a cookie-cutter starting point to build from.

Victor Morson, on 13 August 2013 - 04:41 PM, said:

Also the only way noobish builds have ever thrown me or anyone in my unit is off is from snide commentary and laughing, breaking our coms discipline.

Of course a pre-made, experienced team will laugh at and crush a team of noobs. I'm not advocating building noob builds for the purpose of "throwing the pros off". I've just seen upsets happen before that could have been avoided easily by some simple adaptation, in various games, maybe less often in MWO specifically. Anyhow, I lol'd at your "comms discipline" remark.

[Victor Morson]

qki, on 14 August 2013 - 06:55 AM, said:

OP, do everyone a favor and get off the damn internet.

This sad excuse of a "guide" is so fundamentally wrong, it's right there with Honey Boo Boo and kids' beauty paegents.

This should be an entertaining read.

qki, on 14 August 2013 - 06:55 AM, said:

Going by your standards, the small laser is the only weapon worth using, period. And anyone who uses anything but small lasers (ok, I'll allow medium lasers) is playing the game wrong.

Whaaaaaaaaat?

qki, on 14 August 2013 - 06:55 AM, said:

Here's a weapon with the best damage/tonnage ratio of all weapons, and one that lets you take the optimal mix of firepower and heatsinks...

NOT.

Despite your attempt at 90s humor, you're just rambling at this point. I can't figure out why on Earth you are going on about small lasers? Crit space is an issue too, not just tonnage, man.

qki, on 14 August 2013 - 06:55 AM, said:

You see, the PPC, ERPPC, and LPL are all different animals.

Pssst, I'll tell you a secret: Range only matters if you're not in it.
The ERPPC has better range, and no minimum range, so it SEEMS like it's better than a regular PPC, but as long as your target is within 90-540m, the PPC is strictly better than the ER version.

Uh... yeah? I've said both PPC and ER PPC are usable options so..

qki, on 14 August 2013 - 06:55 AM, said:

The ERPPC is better within 90m, but inside 300m, the LPL beats them both, by having a tad more damage, less heat per discharge, better cycle, AND being a hitscan weapon.

And here's where you go off the rails.

The LPL is hitscan, sure, but it's also duration. That means even with the shorter duration - which is an improvement to be sure - you're still spreading damage over multiple parts of a 'mech, instead of instantly delivering it all up front to a single location.

The LPL's recycle is negligible because it is still far too hot to get any reasonable advantage from it over the ER PPC.

qki, on 14 August 2013 - 06:55 AM, said:

That's all from a purely mathematic standpoint. Damage-wise, two MLs will do the same as a single PPC, with less heat, and MUCH less weight.

They also a duration weapons that occupy valuable hardpoints some builds can't spare.

qki, on 14 August 2013 - 06:55 AM, said:

Where does the LL stand on this? It is lighter than a LPL, has slightly less damage, and a slightly better heat profile. Two extra heatsinks make that even better, BUT... that's 6 slots. Not always available. Also hardpoints. That's the real crux of the matter. Hardpoint restrictions. Sometimes you have the tonnage to take your pick of PPC/ERPPC/LPL over the LL, but not the hardpoints or slots to use those extra 2 tons the LL gives you.

.... your point? This is the most unfocused reply on the thread so far. The Large Laser used to be good, but if you can't bank at least 3, preferably 4 of them, they are entirely worthless. They would have been on my Top Tier list before ghost heat, and now are on my bottom tier.

You could mix them with medium lasers, but what's the point?

qki, on 14 August 2013 - 06:55 AM, said:

If theres a SOLID piece of advice to give new players, is to not take a zillion different weapon systems.

You have 2 mouse buttons, and probably a third one (wheel) that's a little less ergonomic to press. With any sort of gaming mouse (even a cheap one) you probably get two more buttons to use, for a total of 4 (+1).

Stick to 3, maximum of 4 weapon groups, and you'll be fine. Mixing SRM, SSRM, long, and short range weapons is a recipe for disaster, as it will cause a helmet fire, giving you more weapon groups than you can realistically control, or forcing you to put mismatched weapons in a single group - not a good idea either.

Uh, yes? That's pretty much exactly what I was saying. Extra groups can help you gain extra control over your current weapons, but you don't want tons of mismatching ones.

Also, Streaks are horrible since the nerf and you would be wise to steer clear of them.

.... so I guess your entire "honey boo boo" opening came down to going "Nuh-uh, LPLs are awwwwesome!" and not much else. How disappointing.

[Victor Morson]

MnDragon, on 14 August 2013 - 07:30 AM, said:

Victor, I would have quoted what you said in regards to my post, but sadly everything that you wrote is much the same as Charlie Brown's Teacher talking....Wawawawawawawa.

Are you sure that's what I wrote?

Because if you don't understand it, it's likely to sound that way. Much like trying to discuss computers with someone from the middle ages. Without a grasp of what you're talking about, you're not going to be understood.

MnDragon, on 14 August 2013 - 07:30 AM, said:

As for the challenge, I will take it up with my unit commander, if he feels it is worth our time to scrimmage against a merc unit, then he will be in contact with your leadership to set it up.

If your unit truly doesn't want to run meta builds, I sincerely hope they accept. Let's start putting money where your mouths are, folks. This should be.. fun.

Ph30nix, on 14 August 2013 - 07:49 AM, said:

your # 1 almost made me not bother reading the rest of your post.....

not that it was 100% wrong but wrong enough

I wish it were. But it is not.

Edited by Victor Morson, 14 August 2013 - 02:59 PM.

[1453 R]

Victor, I would like to recommend you start over. Post a new thread, a Revised Checklist of What Not to Do, and try and recall that the standards you're applying to new players are not only unrealistic, but also just outright unreasonable.

According to super-high-end, tippety-toppiest 2% Leagueians who never do anything but drop in organized, inter-group 12-mans, yes, your list is correct. You cannot, however, expect to steer every single rookie in the game into one of maybe four 'Mech selections running the same set of three-at-best guns. You may believe this to be the best way to club Piranha over the head with balance issues and force them to update junky weapons - though I severely doubt this approach - but it's also a really great way to ensure that our already dangerously low supply of new players willing to stick things out dries up even further and to further ensure a continued high bleed-off rate of existing players.

There is more to this game than PepsiGauss Highlanders and the CTF-3D. Maybe not at your level, but the vast majority of players will never be even remotely close to your level, and there is a world of difference between telling a new player that Blackjacks are generally a bad idea and telling them that if they don't run an HGN-732 with two PPCs, a Gauss rifle, no other weapons save maybe a few SRM launchers for point defense if they're ballsy, the largest available standard engine and precisely two jump jets, they're terrible players, builders, and people and should probably uninstall.

I've considered writing a revised Checklist myself, since you missed a few points in your tactics section (I see no mention of not chasing squirrels, AND SQUIRRELS NEED TO NOT BE CHASED, DAMNIT) and since much of the rest of your information is good and doesn't deserve to be buried by the reaction to your weapons statement, but I don't exactly have the forum presence or reputation to make it stick. You could potentially do a lot of good if you tried again with a bit more moderation in tone and due allowance for the fact that not all of us are super-elite UltraWarriors who can't afford even the most minute of drops in efficiency.

[Victor Morson]

1453 R, on 14 August 2013 - 03:21 PM, said:

Victor, I would like to recommend you start over. Post a new thread, a Revised Checklist of What Not to Do, and try and recall that the standards you're applying to new players are not only unrealistic, but also just outright unreasonable.

Good advice continues to be good advice, and I stand by 100% of everything said. If a newbie comes into this thread want wants to read through the pages, they can make up their own mind who's right in this argument.

1453 R, on 14 August 2013 - 03:21 PM, said:

According to super-high-end, tippety-toppiest 2% Leagueians who never do anything but drop in organized, inter-group 12-mans, yes, your list is correct. You cannot, however, expect to steer every single rookie in the game into one of maybe four 'Mech selections running the same set of three-at-best guns.

I can, and I will.

I am steering them towards the most successful designs in the game. If a newbie would like to join this game and design something that's absolutely top tier, this is the thread for them. Which limits their gun and 'mech selection greatly.

I wish this were not how the game works, badly. But it does. We have to deal with it.

1453 R, on 14 August 2013 - 03:21 PM, said:

You may believe this to be the best way to club Piranha over the head with balance issues and force them to update junky weapons - though I severely doubt this approach - but it's also a really great way to ensure that our already dangerously low supply of new players willing to stick things out dries up even further and to further ensure a continued high bleed-off rate of existing players.

If players realize there's only a handful of viable weapons and quit over it, well, that is the fault of the game. I'm not going to sugar coat and outright lie to them as many people would like to and tell them that the other weapons are roses when they're not to make them think there's more weapon choices here than really exist.

1453 R, on 14 August 2013 - 03:21 PM, said:

There is more to this game than PepsiGauss Highlanders and the CTF-3D. Maybe not at your level, but the vast majority of players will never be even remotely close to your level, and there is a world of difference between telling a new player that Blackjacks are generally a bad idea and telling them that if they don't run an HGN-732 with two PPCs, a Gauss rifle, no other weapons save maybe a few SRM launchers for point defense if they're ballsy, the largest available standard engine and precisely two jump jets, they're terrible players, builders, and people and should probably uninstall.

For one I never said. Two, that build sounds like a butchered Highlander. Three, there really isn't more to the game than the Jenner, Centurion, Cataphract and Highlander right now in casual games, and Trebuchet, Raven, Stalker, Victor in League games. (PS: I am strongly consider taking the Victor off the viable 'mech list, as it's been under performing badly.)

What I am saying is if you want to maximize your damage and odds of winning, you will follow this advice. It will also make you more popular with your team. I would much rather die and see the last guy up has a nasty alpha config than a handful of light ACs and MGs.

Finally at even the "newest of the new" level, do you know what happens? 'mechs designed like this are akin to demigods. If you get two Highlanders in a 12 player casual PUG, they are often absolute lords of destruction because nothing is even remotely on par with them. The only threat for the Highlander becomes the other Highlander.

This impacts everyone.

1453 R, on 14 August 2013 - 03:21 PM, said:

I've considered writing a revised Checklist myself, since you missed a few points in your tactics section (I see no mention of not chasing squirrels, AND SQUIRRELS NEED TO NOT BE CHASED, DAMNIT) and since much of the rest of your information is good and doesn't deserve to be buried by the reaction to your weapons statement, but I don't exactly have the forum presence or reputation to make it stick. You could potentially do a lot of good if you tried again with a bit more moderation in tone and due allowance for the fact that not all of us are super-elite UltraWarriors who can't afford even the most minute of drops in efficiency.

Again, this thread isn't here to sugar coat things to newbies. It's not here to lie to them, or to try to convince them junk is good so they stick around under false beliefs.

It's here to tell them what not to do if they want to do well at the game. Period. If they chose not to heed this advice, that's fine. If even one person does, I'm satisfied this thread did some good.

[MnDragon]

Victor Morson, on 14 August 2013 - 03:36 PM, said:

~Snip~

[sarcasm]
<set phasers=Troll>
If OP="Victor" Then infinite loop
PPC+Gauss=Baawwwz
N00b=all else
Display (0,0) Color=128764 “I am Victor, I am MWO GAWD, Listen to me puny N00bs, so it is written, so shall it be done."
/end
[/sarcasm] A summarization of the last nine pages of your tripe.
Honestly Victor, If you really need me to spell out why its dumb to follow the sheep and get a PPC Gauss combo build I will give you a few examples:

• While you are poptarting in a highlander taking popshots from 700m away, my Spider buddy with ECM is sneaking around behind your lines TAGing you and launching a UAV so that I can rain LRMs on you with a LRM 90 Stalker.
  
• While you are cowering in cover waiting for your weapons to cool, I have snuck around you in a lance of commandos with Cap Accelerators and win by cap before you can fire a shot.
  
• While you are focusing on my buddies’ Atlai, I have snuck around you, blown off your Rear CT armor with an AC20, and fired 5x MG at your innards destroying you in about 3 seconds. (yes, do the math, it will probably take less than that, I am being judicious.)

These are but three ways that the Uber-elitist 12 man team of all the same build can come to a loss. There is one thing that it requires which you have poo-pooed time and time again…a team comprised of several different builds working as that…a TEAM. This is a TEAM based game, not an individualistic super MWO GAWD game. Teams that work together and have a variety of abilities: win. So it was proven time and again in history. But hey, what do I know, apparently I’m a n00b, with no MWO cred.

Edited by MnDragon, 14 August 2013 - 04:26 PM.