892 replies to this topic

[Zerberus]

Noesis, on 03 April 2014 - 02:44 PM, said:

Oh noes!!!!!, how will I be able to hold my head high in Clan soceity again.

You yourself will not, but someone who will gladly cut it off and hold it high for you probably exists somewhere. Possibly coming to the Inner Sphere.

Edited by Zerberus, 04 April 2014 - 05:45 PM.

[Edward Mattlov]

Noesis, on 03 April 2014 - 02:44 PM, said:

Oh noes!!!!!, how will I be able to hold my head high in Clan soceity again.

No true Clan Warrior would ever allow you to hold your own head in Clan society, but they may hold it for you.

[GalaxyBluestar]

Noesis, on 03 April 2014 - 02:44 PM, said:

Oh noes!!!!!, how will I be able to hold my head high in Clan soceity again.

KuroNyra, on 04 April 2014 - 06:32 AM, said:

I'll love and tolerate the sh!t outta him. ^^

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 04 April 2014 - 09:38 PM.

[Remarius]

CCC Dober, on 29 March 2014 - 01:17 AM, said:

Don't forget customer expectations. Believe it or not, there were plenty of MW games that got it right long before MWO was even a thing. I'd say that keeping MW4 in mind here is a good thing, simply because it is one of the more rounded, but most of all, "complete" products. It may look dated, but it is mechanically very robust with quite a lot of content.

The odd thing about the series were the original MW4 Mech packs (both Clan and IS) back in the days. Hideously expensive at the time, but still rather cheap compared to what we have to cough up for Mech packs in MWO. It's all about perspective, heh.

That's a very debateable call. The PC game was fun presuming you were happy with hard points and stepping away from cannon. It was also terribly broken even in the campaign because balance wasn't important for the single player side. The online version... *facepalm*.

Comparing a free to play game where most people pay very little (and whales like myself or Noesis pay far more) with far higher development and ongoing costs to a 2002 game with one off costs is odd. Then add in other elements like inflation or the difference in cost of development tools. Try to hire an experienced software programmer for what was paid back then and you'll just get laughed at.

I took my daughter for a meal and cinema in London in Jan for a birthday (its a ritual ok despite her being 30!) and train, meal, cinema cost me £172 all told ($276.52 at yesterday's paypal price). That was for one evenings entertainment. Was it worth it to me? Hell yes she's my daughter. Will it cost more next year... sadly yes inflation climbs and climbs.

I played MW4 and the addons through maybe 2 times. It was fun. Hours... not too many from memory but well spent.

I play MWO 6-7 days a week and the legendary founder tag gives away for how long I've done that. Bad evening after work when knackered say just an hour, a sunday with 12 man/practice or when helping new players I can be on from 7.30am to midnight with a couple of hours for dinner.

The difference in hours is astonishing and it makes my cost per hour rather small despite having every pack PGI have released. Compare that to every other new FPS shooter I've played in 2013-14 and its laughable (mainly because they were awful, full of hackers, really don't have much ongoing content and just didn't fit my playstyle). Or compare it to that meal with my daughter if you want a horrendous cost/hour!

For me as an old fart with grown up children, divorced, mortgage paid and a decent job its not even a question despite the flaws (that I also see in so many other games). Particularly as I've been a rabid House Davion mechbunny since 1984 when I was inculcated into this cult (hobby) by a group of friends.

In many ways I look at it as helping fund PGI's ongoing development costs.. same way I did all the money I dropped into Star Citizen and that dwarfed MWO.

Edited by Remarius, 05 April 2014 - 12:10 AM.

[KuroNyra]

People tend to rant against PGI for what they do to the Battletech Franchise, but if you think about it.
It's PGI who is maintining the franchise alive, without that game, I would have probably NEVER heard about Mechwarrior. and get in.


Without Mechwarrior: Online, I would have for example never heard of Mechwarrior Living Legends too.
People are doing in my opinion something bad by actiling like purist.

Most of the MW games were single player were stuff has balanced weren't has important has it is now.
Just take a look at Living Legend, do you honestly see people really using IS mech over Clan mech in that game now?


I don't, the only exception is at the very start where you can choose a Owen or a Solitaire without real problem because they can both do the same kind of stuff.

But soon after the "big one's" get avalaible. You have Mad Cat/Timber Wolf, Vultures/Mad Dog, Loki/Hellbringer, Thor/Summoner, some Warhammer 40 000, and lot's of Ryoken/Stormcrow. Let's not talk about the Dire Wolf who is one of the final goal to get in that game.

The only IS mech you will see are the Atlas, the Fafnir/Faffy, and the Hollander II and the Chimera but only because they are the only first medium mech available.



Don't get me wrong. I would love to really feel that I have a "superior" mech when I'll get in my Timber Wolf. I'd love to fight an OP Dire Wolf in my Centurion, trying to get him even if I have a great disadvantage (I'm kind of crazy. For example, attacking a dragon by hand's on Skyrim? Done. etc etc...)

But will it be fun for everyone? Not really.

PGI need to make the IS mech still viable against the clan mech in order to keep player's playing them.


Let's say that PGI make the Clan Mech like they are canoncly. OP, fast, and extremely resilient. What would happen? Simple. EVERYBODY would get in them and the Centurion, the Hunchback would be anecdodic has a Locust right now.

Also, people are ranting about the "feeling" inside the mech.
So far, I've played both MW:O and MWLL.
And so far, even if I deeply LOVE the MWLL match system with "stock" mech only. (one thing MW:O SHOULD have.)
I feel more like to be in a 100ton of death Atlas in MWO, than I do in MWLL.

Yet it's the contrary for some people, and I can understand that.
(but one thing I won't understand is how playing MW:O is considerer has a crime in MWLL... Seriously, talk about MWO on MWLL and you will be flagged has a bad guy. Almost got teamkilled multiple time because of this.)



And now I see that I'm completly off-topic, but I suppose I had to spite this out...

[Jaroth Corbett]

I hear what you are saying but from someone who played MW3, the only thing MWO has over it, is the graphics. Besides that, MW3 is a WAY better game. It is actually referred to as a sim. I highlighted this in two other threads. MW4 looked like an arcade game by comparison. I guess it is where you began your MW experience that really shapes your opinion.

[KuroNyra]

Jaroth Corbett, on 05 April 2014 - 01:23 AM, said:

I hear what you are saying but from someone who played MW3, the only thing MWO has over it, is the graphics. Besides that, MW3 is a WAY better game. It is actually referred to as a sim. I highlighted this in two other threads. MW4 looked like an arcade game by comparison. I guess it is where you began your MW experience that really shapes your opinion.

I tried to get MW3 and MW4 to try out.
But let's just say my computer is too damn powerful to run these game now.
And since I'm a complete moron with simulator system allowing to play "older" game.... Well..


I would really like to play MW 3 and 4 to compare, I'd love to play a "real" Battletech.

Since I'm a kid. I was always interested in "Mecha", trying to find games featuring metalic monster. There were Zone of The Ender's, and that was pretty much all...
Mechwarrior was almost a revelator for me. X')
When I saw the Mechwarrior 5 trailer, I wasn't far away from having a nerdgasm. :3

[Jaroth Corbett]

You can check http://www.mechwarrior3.org for instructions on how to play MW3 on a newer PC. I am sure there will be guides to help you with MW4 on the internet.

[CCC Dober]

Remarius, on 05 April 2014 - 12:09 AM, said:

That's a very debateable call. The PC game was fun presuming you were happy with hard points and stepping away from cannon. It was also terribly broken even in the campaign because balance wasn't important for the single player side. The online version... *facepalm*.

Comparing a free to play game where most people pay very little (and whales like myself or Noesis pay far more) with far higher development and ongoing costs to a 2002 game with one off costs is odd. Then add in other elements like inflation or the difference in cost of development tools. Try to hire an experienced software programmer for what was paid back then and you'll just get laughed at.

I took my daughter for a meal and cinema in London in Jan for a birthday (its a ritual ok despite her being 30!) and train, meal, cinema cost me £172 all told ($276.52 at yesterday's paypal price). That was for one evenings entertainment. Was it worth it to me? Hell yes she's my daughter. Will it cost more next year... sadly yes inflation climbs and climbs.

I played MW4 and the addons through maybe 2 times. It was fun. Hours... not too many from memory but well spent.

I play MWO 6-7 days a week and the legendary founder tag gives away for how long I've done that. Bad evening after work when knackered say just an hour, a sunday with 12 man/practice or when helping new players I can be on from 7.30am to midnight with a couple of hours for dinner.

The difference in hours is astonishing and it makes my cost per hour rather small despite having every pack PGI have released. Compare that to every other new FPS shooter I've played in 2013-14 and its laughable (mainly because they were awful, full of hackers, really don't have much ongoing content and just didn't fit my playstyle). Or compare it to that meal with my daughter if you want a horrendous cost/hour!

For me as an old fart with grown up children, divorced, mortgage paid and a decent job its not even a question despite the flaws (that I also see in so many other games). Particularly as I've been a rabid House Davion mechbunny since 1984 when I was inculcated into this cult (hobby) by a group of friends.

In many ways I look at it as helping fund PGI's ongoing development costs.. same way I did all the money I dropped into Star Citizen and that dwarfed MWO.

You obviously missed out on the MW4 multiplayer aspect and later mods. With that in mind, you got so much more out of the game, it was simply unreal. Sadly enough it was impossible to add new singleplayer campaigns, but at least there was interplanetary league play, new maps and Mechs to try out. My last count was well above 100 Mechs with Mekpak 3.1. and way more maps than that. The modding community kept the game going long after M$ pulled the plug. For free.

And what do we have here in MWO? None of the above. What used to be a $60 feature complete product with a minimum of mod support (map tool) is now supposedly free and anything but complete without any mod support at all. Indeed, we are facing price inflation but also a feature deflation that boggles the mind. The most basic multiplayer features are missing. Lobby? Nope. Map vote? Nope. Adjusting Mechs/configs to the map? Nope. Reconnect? Nope. The list goes on ...

Despite all that we are supposed to bleed money for premium time, Mech Credits, GXP conversions, cockpit decorations, camo skins and hero Mechs. None of that adds to the experience in a meaningful way and some of it even bars your way. I find this particularly insulting because it betrays a lack of committment to the Founders deal that literally kickstarted MWO. As a Founder you would rightfully think that delivering on the four pillars of MWO's design would have top priority. It's what you paid for after all.

Are you happy about what was sold and where we are today?
What about the costs for the Clan Packs?
Are they fair when you got more and better Mechs back in MW4 mods for free?

You don't need to give me the answer to any of these questions. I'd be happy if you would just consider where we've been already, what has been sold to us and where we are today.

[Sharkomodo]

I've never, ever understood what there is to like about the Clans. Sure, Timber Wolves look cool, but in the board game, which is 100 percent where I come from, the biggest moron in the world can be good in a clan mech. They take zero skill at all to pilot. Their advantages are so outrageous it's laughable. That's what makes wrecking them so much fun. In a very real way, I'm hopeful the measured versions at MWO will make them less heinous then they are in BattleTech. There's always going to be people you don't get along with, and this was inevitable, but the droning of guys who think they can play and quote that silly Clan way of speech is gonna get old in a hurry. Much like playing Blue in magic, you're not clever, it's just what the cards do. Similarly, you're not a great warrior, OminMechs just are THAT far out of balance. Chill money. Get a locust if you wanna impress me.

Edited by Sharkomodo, 05 April 2014 - 01:44 AM.

[KuroNyra]

Jaroth Corbett, on 05 April 2014 - 01:40 AM, said:

You can check http://www.mechwarrior3.org for instructions on how to play MW3 on a newer PC. I am sure there will be guides to help you with MW4 on the internet.

Thank you!

Sharkomodo, on 05 April 2014 - 01:43 AM, said:

I've never, ever understood what there is to like about the Clans. Sure, Timber Wolves look cool, but in the board game, which is 100 percent where I come from, the biggest moron in the world can be good in a clan mech. They take zero skill at all to pilot. Their advantages are so outrageous it's laughable. That's what makes wrecking them so much fun. In a very real way, I'm hopeful the measured versions at MWO will make them less heinous then they are in BattleTech. There's always going to be people you don't get along with, and this was inevitable, but the droning of guys who think they can play and quote that silly Clan way of speech is gonna get old in a hurry. Much like playing Blue in magic, you're not clever, it's just what the cards do. Similarly, you're not a great warrior, OminMechs just are THAT far out of balance. Chill money. Get a locust if you wanna impress me.

The thing who is nice with the clan is there way of thinking who is a strange mix of military, and honnor.
Everything can be discussed, but the battlefield will always be the main tribunal for the mechwarrior caste.

And I DO have a Locust, and the Phoenix one with that.
(but I just prefer my raven.)

[CCC Dober]

Sharkomodo, on 05 April 2014 - 01:43 AM, said:

I've never, ever understood what there is to like about the Clans. Sure, Timber Wolves look cool, but in the board game, which is 100 percent where I come from, the biggest moron in the world can be good in a clan mech. They take zero skill at all to pilot. Their advantages are so outrageous it's laughable. That's what makes wrecking them so much fun. In a very real way, I'm hopeful the measured versions at MWO will make them less heinous then they are in BattleTech. There's always going to be people you don't get along with, and this was inevitable, but the droning of guys who think they can play and quote that silly Clan way of speech is gonna get old in a hurry. Much like playing Blue in magic, you're not clever, it's just what the cards do. Similarly, you're not a great warrior, OminMechs just are THAT far out of balance. Chill money. Get a locust if you wanna impress me.

Clan tech is inherently balanced due to logistical considerations. It is a logistical burden outside of the Homeworlds, where the general tech base is lower and materials/components depend on long supply lines.

For whatever reason, logistics just don't seem to matter a whole lot in MW games. Admittedly, that makes the game easier to grasp, but the net result is that Clan tech becomes the obvious choice. Talk about imbalance by design. Aside from costs, there are no real downsides to it, which is highly misleading.

You could compare the situation to fielding a modern day tank in a cold war setting from the 80s. And then you decide to brush logistics under the carpet. It's rather obvious that said tank would have serious trouble to remain functional after certain parts/materials/liquids are destroyed/damaged/worn out/depleted. The same would be true for Clan technology in the IS, if somebody bothered to take logistics into consideration.

Take the Clan XL-reactor as example. The reactor depends on material that is only found in the Homeworlds. Which means that every time a Clan XL-reactor has to be replaced, the pool of available ones in the Inner Sphere shrinks by one. If it takes about a year to ship one from the Homeworlds to the Inner Sphere, then you can probably guess that replacements are hard to come by. All of a sudden you would have to think long and hard about committing precious Clan technology to meaningless side shows, wouldn't you? It also means that you have to accept lower tech replacements, which have a negative performance impact. Or you need to butcher existing Mechs to effect repairs on more valuable ones.

As it stands now, you don't have to make any tough calls like that when it comes to Clan tech. It comes with all the advantages and next to no disadvantages.

[J0anna]

Sharkomodo, on 05 April 2014 - 01:43 AM, said:

I've never, ever understood what there is to like about the Clans. Sure, Timber Wolves look cool, but in the board game, which is 100 percent where I come from, the biggest moron in the world can be good in a clan mech. They take zero skill at all to pilot. Their advantages are so outrageous it's laughable. That's what makes wrecking them so much fun. In a very real way, I'm hopeful the measured versions at MWO will make them less heinous then they are in BattleTech. There's always going to be people you don't get along with, and this was inevitable, but the droning of guys who think they can play and quote that silly Clan way of speech is gonna get old in a hurry. Much like playing Blue in magic, you're not clever, it's just what the cards do. Similarly, you're not a great warrior, OminMechs just are THAT far out of balance. Chill money. Get a locust if you wanna impress me.

First off I couldn't care less if my choice impresses you or not, but I always went clan for a few reasons:

1) If you go IS, then you realize that you the only way you win is to rely on an organization that has spend the last 200+ years suppressing you by denying you technology (and actively destroying what you have). As the clans I get to kill them.

2) If you go clans your goal is to recreate the Star League, a time when civilization flourished. A very noble goal. The clans have already created a society where civilization once again could flourish, which is why their tech is better.

3) As clans in TT, you always fight outnumbered, and will lose to the superior numbers if/when the IS gets into melee, thus the IS is always looking to get into melee.

4) Since you play TT, you know the format is "I go/ you go", mech by mech. The IS always has mechs moving last with no response, thus the clans always need to be thinking ahead, saving shots and positioning so as to not get tied up into melee. To me, I always liked that challenge.

Properly done, it was like playing a WW II boardgame as the Germans vs the Russians. Yeah there were scenarios that were complete jokes, but the balanced ones were a good challenge for both sides. And as I stated in #1, I hate COMSTAR, destroying them with extreme prejudice is something I REALLY want PGI to put into this game.

[Craig Steele]

Sharkomodo, on 05 April 2014 - 01:43 AM, said:

I've never, ever understood what there is to like about the Clans. Sure, Timber Wolves look cool, but in the board game, which is 100 percent where I come from, the biggest moron in the world can be good in a clan mech. They take zero skill at all to pilot. Their advantages are so outrageous it's laughable. That's what makes wrecking them so much fun. In a very real way, I'm hopeful the measured versions at MWO will make them less heinous then they are in BattleTech. There's always going to be people you don't get along with, and this was inevitable, but the droning of guys who think they can play and quote that silly Clan way of speech is gonna get old in a hurry. Much like playing Blue in magic, you're not clever, it's just what the cards do. Similarly, you're not a great warrior, OminMechs just are THAT far out of balance. Chill money. Get a locust if you wanna impress me.

Yeah ummm, I'm not really with you on this one.

Clan mechs are generally really easy to over heat and it does take a bit of intelligence to ride the curve and plan your next move.

But sure, if you put a 70 Clan mech against a 70 ton 3025 mech the Clan is a no brainer.

Do a Clan v Clan duel though, and the better pilot won.

[Craig Steele]

CCC Dober, on 05 April 2014 - 04:18 AM, said:

Take the Clan XL-reactor as example. The reactor depends on material that is only found in the Homeworlds. Which means that every time a Clan XL-reactor has to be replaced, the pool of available ones in the Inner Sphere shrinks by one. If it takes about a year to ship one from the Homeworlds to the Inner Sphere, then you can probably guess that replacements are hard to come by. All of a sudden you would have to think long and hard about committing precious Clan technology to meaningless side shows, wouldn't you? It also means that you have to accept lower tech replacements, which have a negative performance impact. Or you need to butcher existing Mechs to effect repairs on more valuable ones.

I'm not to sure about this one.

There is no canon I know of that Clan tech relies on materials exclusive to Clan worlds (Harjel being the sole exception which is not used in mech or weapon manufacture, just elemental suits and warships).

Indeed, post the refusal war both Jade Falcon and Ghost Bear are starting to manufacture Clan tech equipment in the IS with local resources.

I'd be interested in your source on this, it would certainly change up some logistical assumption I have made previously about the whole Invasion.

[KuroNyra]

Craig Steele, on 05 April 2014 - 05:38 AM, said:

Yeah ummm, I'm not really with you on this one.

Clan mechs are generally really easy to over heat and it does take a bit of intelligence to ride the curve and plan your next move.

But sure, if you put a 70 Clan mech against a 70 ton 3025 mech the Clan is a no brainer.

Do a Clan v Clan duel though, and the better pilot won.

Simple example.

Mechwarrior Living Legend.

Take the Dire Wolf, no matter the version.
If you don't use with extreme caution your weapon group, you will overheat extremely quickly. And become a very nice juicy target.

I know for experience that I'm not made for the Dire Wolf, and that I'm also probably one of the worst players battletech franchise ever saw.

Seriously, I made a duel once me in a Dire Wolf, my opponent on a Stormcrow...
I barely won against him. Almost got killed! Can you believe this? A Stormcrow holing his ground in a one on one against a freaking Dire Wolf?

I've bought the whole set of clan mech. But I'm pretty sur I will suck with the warhack and the Dire Wolf... And probably with the rest too.

(cycloner, your still sur you want me has part of the clan wolf? Maybe I could try to get in the Jade Falcon or Smoke Jaguar, to bring them down faster. )

Edited by KuroNyra, 05 April 2014 - 05:49 AM.

[Noahbash]

Founder's Pack $120 (4 mechs, 90 days premium) = $30/mech

Full Clan Pack $240 (24 mechs, 90 days premium) = $10/mech

Also the Clan mechs are SUPER EXPENSIVE in-game, so I don't understand how anyone can say this isn't an INSNAELY good deal.

The pricing sounds good to me, I have already started buying/upgrading on my way to the full pack.

The gold mech is cool if you have nothing else to spend your money on, why not let folks have something special and keep it TRULY SPECIAL by having such a high price tag? Don't be jealous that you can't afford it.

[KuroNyra]

Noahbash, on 05 April 2014 - 08:31 AM, said:

Founder's Pack $120 (4 mechs, 90 days premium) = $30/mech

Full Clan Pack $240 (24 mechs, 90 days premium) = $10/mech

Also the Clan mechs are SUPER EXPENSIVE in-game, so I don't understand how anyone can say this isn't an INSNAELY good deal.

The pricing sounds good to me, I have already started buying/upgrading on my way to the full pack.

The gold mech is cool if you have nothing else to spend your money on, why not let folks have something special and keep it TRULY SPECIAL by having such a high price tag? Don't be jealous that you can't afford it.

Well personatly I don't have something against the Gold Mech, if people are willing to pay one, it's there right. They show there support that way.
I know that I would NEVER get a mech THAT expensive, but I know that some other could.



Has long has I can pilot my Timber Wolf, or my Mad Dog playing heavy metal music while fighting. I'm happy with this.
Beside, they will be easy to spot in the long rang engagement.

[Hawk819]

I've already bought the Black Hawk package, and then Upgraded to Daishi package, and on Tuesday, got the Puma [Adder], so all I need is Mad Cat, Storm Crow, and War Hawk [Masakari]. $90 is all that separates me from full package. I'm getting the Storm Crow and Mad Cat aka Mad Cat package on May 1 and the Masakari on May 3rd.

[KuroNyra]

Hawk819, on 05 April 2014 - 09:28 AM, said:

I've already bought the Black Hawk package, and then Upgraded to Daishi package, and on Tuesday, got the Puma [Adder], so all I need is Mad Cat, Storm Crow, and War Hawk [Masakari]. $90 is all that separates me from full package. I'm getting the Storm Crow and Mad Cat aka Mad Cat package on May 1 and the Masakari on May 3rd.

No, no NO!
It's a Timber Wolf!
And it's a WarHawk!
Stop using these stupid IS name you freebirth!