152 replies to this topic

[Kjudoon]

PACoFist, on 28 February 2014 - 01:38 AM, said:

If you are the last man standing in your team, and don´t want to get killed by the enemy, you can just run "out of bounds". If it makes you feel better you can pretend you did retreat. And there is no penalty to killing yourself.

See what happens when you run out of bounds. You get zero XP zero Cbills. Thank you no. I'll take my meager earnings, and they will be meager in a ROFLstomp, and shut down somewhere. If they offered a retreat option, I'd do that. But they don't so tough. I'll play like I want to play and if I want to shut down and hide, I'm going to do just that Provide me with a way to walk off the field with what I've accomplished, I'd take that option.

So instead of whining about those that hide, how about you petition PGI to fix this out of bounds penalty and allow those of us who have no interest getting some twitch monkey's instant gratification stoked the ability to walk off the field with no harm no foul. Till then get used to disappointment or learn to use visual searches.

[Bishop Steiner]

Kjudoon, on 28 February 2014 - 01:23 AM, said:

So you're determined to get banned on a team treason charge? Okie doke. You do what you gotta do.

I have probably had a boatload more interaction with the Devs than you, and am pretty sure I understand the INTENT of the griefing rules. Also, unlike the others on here I am agreeing with the OP, whereas one does not call out the coordinates, but one DOES report the offending party. You see, then instead of all you little "internet lawyers" trying to sort things out, I simply leave it in the hands of the Devs to decide. So yeah, I will do what I gotta do.

[wanderer]

Quote

big difference between someone using shutdown to break locks or even set up an ambush, and a person who knows his team is losing running off to hide in a corner to protect his precious stats

Or to not pad someone else's precious stats. What if I don't want you to get a pile of exp and C-bills for gang-banging me when it's 5v1? 10v1? 12v1?

Quote

you can just run "out of bounds". If it makes you feel better you can pretend you did retreat. And there is no penalty to killing yourself

You get no exp for anything save "win", "tie", or "loss" if you leave the map. Try it some time. So if you've been shooting up targets and go off-map...it's for nothing.

Letting people escape off map and treating it as a "retreat",with whoever damaged it getting ASSIST exp/C-bills instead of a kill would do wonders.

[Wrathful-Khan]

wanderer, on 28 February 2014 - 06:58 AM, said:

Letting people escape off map and treating it as a "retreat",with whoever damaged it getting ASSIST exp/C-bills instead of a kill would do wonders.

And watch as people get one kill and retreat in order to pad their stats that way

[Sug]

Serenade, on 28 February 2014 - 01:19 AM, said:

Idk.. Some people seem to care about their kill/death so they'll hide to preserve it.

But they can just quit the match and the match will end.

DodgerH2O, on 27 February 2014 - 11:16 PM, said:

Do you have a source for that? I'm not trying to say you're wrong but I feel like I've heard the exact opposite is true.

http://mwomercs.com/.../66088-farming/

http://mwomercs.com/...e-dc-crediting/


If you die and disconnect you will still get your 25k at the end of the match for winning or losing, plus all your rewards that you earned before you died. If you damaged a mech that wasn't killed before you disconnect you will not get an Assist credit if it gets killed later.

This is to stop people from farming cbills by suicide running into the other team, shooting every mech, dying, disconnecting, starting a new match, and getting Assist cbills from the first match.

[DodgerH2O]

Sug, on 28 February 2014 - 08:16 AM, said:

http://mwomercs.com/.../66088-farming/

http://mwomercs.com/...e-dc-crediting/


If you die and disconnect you will still get your 25k at the end of the match for winning or losing, plus all your rewards that you earned before you died. If you damaged a mech that wasn't killed before you disconnect you will not get an Assist credit if it gets killed later.

This is to stop people from farming cbills by suicide running into the other team, shooting every mech, dying, disconnecting, starting a new match, and getting Assist cbills from the first match.

Those posts make it sound like if you disconnect after dying you only miss out on salvage/resource bonuses. Not necessarily insignificant but personally most of my XP and CB comes from kills, assists, and components. Sure would be nice if PGI made these things absolutely clear in some place where everyone could see them, not just folk who are referred to a specific couple of forum posts...

[MerryIguana]

I would prefer that ingame chat is split into 2 groups. Live can talk to live, dead can only talk to dead. No more armchair generals, no more griefing jackassery. Simple.

[Wildstreak]

Bishop Steiner, on 27 February 2014 - 08:02 PM, said:

big difference between someone using shutdown to break locks or even set up an ambush, and a person who knows his team is losing running off to hide in a corner to protect his precious stats. Yes you can say "how do you know that person was not planning an ambush"? Well for one thing, if he is, he should chat it to his own team. That way they know what he is doing. But there is also a point where instead of locking everyones mech for 10 minutes to protect your stats, you face the inevitable and get it over with.

Sadly, there are times when I see shutdown people who DO chat with their team and yet players sell them out even if an ambush is planned. The big problem right now here is not those who shutdown, it is the number of people who made up this story about, "protecting K/DR ratios," to justify their behavior. If you want to accuse someone, you need proof, the accusers/ sellouts don't have any yet they keep hiding behind the false accusation.

MerryIguana, on 28 February 2014 - 09:27 AM, said:

I would prefer that ingame chat is split into 2 groups. Live can talk to live, dead can only talk to dead. No more armchair generals, no more griefing jackassery. Simple.

Would only make things worse.

[Kjudoon]

Merchant, on 28 February 2014 - 10:28 AM, said:

Sadly, there are times when I see shutdown people who DO chat with their team and yet players sell them out even if an ambush is planned. The big problem right now here is not those who shutdown, it is the number of people who made up this story about, "protecting K/DR ratios," to justify their behavior. If you want to accuse someone, you need proof, the accusers/ sellouts don't have any yet they keep hiding behind the false accusation.


Would only make things worse.

Once again reinforcing the idea that the solution is not whining about the gameplay of some people's hiding endgame. By changing walking out of bounds to a 'no penalty retreat' instead of a 'naughty naughty penalty' the problem corrects itself. Skirmishers can legitimately say hiding (If it's not for ambush because you've gone and found a deep dark corner you couldn't fight from) is griefing. Of course hiding overlooking a base, or choke point to get the drop on someone... less likely to be legitimate griefing. So with a retreat function and the ROFLstomp occurs, let them walk out of bounds with no penalty and give an assist to all those who damaged that target... problem solved. If farming starts showing up again, limit the amount of 'walkoffs' someone can do in a 24 hour period to say 4 then reinstate the penalty. Obviously if you are doing to do it that often instead of hiding... maybe the game's not right for you. Also, if more than x amount decide to retreat with less than two lances killed then instate the penalty for retreating.

I'd say that'd be a fair solution to those of us who hate skirmish when for some reason somebody forgot to change off of "Any" and we got stuck there in a ROFLstomp, or someone who loves it doesn't wanna be the subject of some twitchmunchkin's ego stroke. They can be told to retreat, much the same way cap haters are now told "go play skirmish".

I can't see the downside, but I bet someone else can. PGI if you're watching, please consider this solution to end so much griefing in forums.

[wintersborn]

I think the action of banning a player for helping everyone else on the team from an abusive player (The Powered down idiot) is why PGI has such a bad reputation. Same thing goes for when someone on your team legs you and you are not allowed to defend yourself or let others know who that TK'er is.

Its PGI's fault anyway, since they designed the game mode and features that allow others to abuse it. With a F2P game and the vast amount of ways to get around IP bans you have a game ripe for it.

Maybe its because I am American and they are Canadian, but sitting there and taking abuse so you can cry to mommy (support) after, with no result is not the way we were or should have been raised.

To me PGI should fix their game so that you can have a vote to end he game rather than play "Mecho Polo" for another 8 minutes, or have no Team Damage options for some game types.

[Throe]

*If* MechWarrior were a real thing, and *if* we were really fighting big stompy robots with big stompy robots across the galaxy, *most* pilots would recognize an unwinnable scenario and retreat, rather than surrender by death/destruction/suicide. That retreat/surrender/forfeit is not an option is unrealistic, at best, and absurd, at worst. Players shouldn't be required to be destroyed in order to stop a battle which has already ended.

In any case, I'd hardly call a retreat, "Non-Participation Abuse". As far as I'm concerned it's a well known strategy after realizing one has been defeated.

Live to fight again another day.

Edited by Throet, 01 March 2014 - 11:36 AM.

[wanderer]

Quote

And watch as people get one kill and retreat in order to pad their stats that way

I R KILLING SO GOODS!

"Dude, your W/L ratio sucks because you get a kill,retreat, and your undermanned team gets slaughtered."

I HAS LOTS OF KILLZ!

"Now people leg you just on general principles. On your own team."

I KILLZ A ROBIT ALL TIMES.

"And since you retreat and miss half the fight, you get jack for exp and C-bills."

I R LEET KILLER! NOOB.

[Kjudoon]

Uhhhh... no. Nobody's doing that unless you're admitting you're the only one doing it.

Besides, I wouldn't care if some.... sigh... one... WAS doing it.

[Samual Kalkin]

Out of curiosity, is there any evidence that PGI has EVER done ANYTHING to take corrective against shutdown / dc cbill farming griefers?

[Ravnis]

I have had many times now in the last two weeks since I have started playing that players have either given away my position as I was running around or tried to grief me for playing a hit and run tactic. I'm generally piloting a light in most games I play, if someone has died and start telling me to go fight, when I am the last mech, they get a big "ST*U" in the chat window. I'll play the game how I like to play it, if that means I'm the last one and I rush off and shut down to make them split up so i have a chance, then that's my game. I see it like this, I shut down to wait, so that I wont be found right away and destroyed. It's called tactics, it's something people do when they know they are in a disadvantageous situation and are waiting to try to get some sort of advantage.

Kind of angry I wasn't aware this could be greifing before now or I would have reported the guys who tossed out my location to the enemy team while I was moving around to attack the one mech that was away from their team.

[1453 R]

It’s a problem of courtesy, Rex.

The issue is that some players deeply enjoy the rush of overwhelming odds against their last-man-standing act…but the rest of us see a single living Jenner on our side of the match against six living members of the enemy team, and the odds are absolutely astronomical that said Jenner is going to accomplish a single meaningful thing – except, of course, to lock up our ‘Mechs until the match timer runs down. Now, most folks are going to have other ‘Mechs they can run while they wait for the Jenner pilot to either make a mistake or finally give up the ghost, but it also means they lose part of their match reward for having to drop early, and they don’t get to use they ‘Mech they want to use for quite a bit afterwards because a single light pilot feels as if he can play Metal Gear with half the enemy team and stealth-assassinate all the remaining enemies.

If you’re not going to accomplish anything, and you know you’re not going to accomplish anything, then I would consider it common courtesy to your fellow players to just get it over with and slam balls-first into the enemy. Blaze-of-glory exit, since we have no option for a gentleman’s retreat to accomplish the same thing. If you feel you have an honest fighting chance against the two or three damaged enemies remaining on that side, tell your team such and most of the time, I imagine they’ll back you. And if somebody doesn’t, and decides to be a rage-troll and give away your position…well, report him and move on. But if you expect that sort of courtesy from the rest of us, then please extend us the courtesy of not holding our ‘Mechs hostage for ten extra minutes at the end of a stomp when you’re outnumbered more than four to one and have no realistic chance whatsoever of getting anything done.

As for my own tendencies…if the player is moving, I won’t call out his position. I may implore him to stop playing Solid Snake and just get it over with for the rest of us, and I will castigate a single enemy on the other side for dragging a match out needlessly, but I’ve only very rarely given the enemy team a ‘friendly’ player’s coordinates. In these instances the friendly is almost always a DC, and when it hasn’t been a DC it’s been a couple of clear cases of grieftrolling – an unarmed Hunchback who’d escaped the meltdown stumping away behind rocks to avoid the executioner’s axe, and an ECM Spider who’d managed to ‘guerilla warfare’ his way into not striking at the enemy with his PPC for a full four minutes before I finally decided enough was enough and started pinging his grid.

Pardon me, but if you’re in a ‘Mech like an ECM ERPPC Spider, ideally suited to pecking at the enemy from concealment, then you have no business ‘jockeying for position’ for over four minutes without firing a shot. The 5D carries its positioning with it as it goes, and you’ll have to pardon me if I don’t particularly feel like sacrificing my rewards or my game time to watch you stroke your E&E *****. If you want to play Ghost Recon, go play Ghost Recon. Let the rest of us keep playing MechWarrior.

[Modo44]

1453 R, on 05 March 2014 - 06:40 AM, said:

It’s a problem of courtesy, Rex.

It really is not. You are not allowed to give friendly mech locations. You can report someone for non participation. Your wall of text does not invalidate the rules.

[CygnusX7]

Mc JR, on 25 February 2014 - 08:15 AM, said:

If you go and hide like a girl to waste my time i will do my best to guide the other team to you, fight the good fight engage the enemy, KDR DOES NOT MATTER TO ANYONE BUT YOU.

Indiandream, on 25 February 2014 - 08:23 AM, said:

I like to go down fighting like a champ. A MechWarrior. If death is as inevitable as you say then what does it matter if not for KDR?

Better to save everyone a couple of minutes of grief so we can all get back to the pew pew we all love so much (Including yourself).

Nobody likes a shutterdowner.

Indiandream, on 25 February 2014 - 08:32 AM, said:

I have no qualms with fighting a guerilla war of attrition. Thats the smart way to fight when outnumbered. As long as you're actually still playing. But if you're going to shut down and "go and get a drink", then you can just get stuffed. That's also griefing.

Reslin, on 25 February 2014 - 08:47 AM, said:

Yeah, I don't mind someone calling people out on skirmish. On skirmish it's a really bad play to go hide when they HAVE to find you. It's just messed up on multiple levels. I have nothing to say in the defense of someone hiding on skirmish just to wait down the timer.

PACoFist, on 25 February 2014 - 08:54 AM, said:

The scenario you described is an exception. I have never observed someone doing this. If you can pull off something like that, I am totally OK with you shutting down.
But as you described you didn´t stay shut down all the time but switched on to continue fighting. You did not shutdown and wait till the timer reaches zero.

Unfortunately most players IMMEDIATELY ASSUME a TEAMMATE has shut down to save their K/D ratio. Just because they're shutdown doesn't mean they aren't waiting for the slightest tactical advantage to possibly get another kill or a little more damage. It has happened to me. In a light, legged, but still have weapons. Enemy team is just over the hill and I hid until they went the other way and a straggler came my way. This allowed me to have the slightest redemption before the game was over.

Honestly you're the dead guy. Stop jumping to conclusions over those who are still alive and might just be attempting to create a better situation for themselves and their team.

Disco and grab another mech. Buy a couple extra modules.

[Kjudoon]

Rex Antilles, on 04 March 2014 - 07:11 PM, said:

I have had many times now in the last two weeks since I have started playing that players have either given away my position as I was running around or tried to grief me for playing a hit and run tactic. I'm generally piloting a light in most games I play, if someone has died and start telling me to go fight, when I am the last mech, they get a big "ST*U" in the chat window. I'll play the game how I like to play it, if that means I'm the last one and I rush off and shut down to make them split up so i have a chance, then that's my game. I see it like this, I shut down to wait, so that I wont be found right away and destroyed. It's called tactics, it's something people do when they know they are in a disadvantageous situation and are waiting to try to get some sort of advantage.

Kind of angry I wasn't aware this could be greifing before now or I would have reported the guys who tossed out my location to the enemy team while I was moving around to attack the one mech that was away from their team.

Screen shot and report. Get them banned if they're going to be team traitors there's no place for them in the game. Maybe if it happens a few times, they'll start behaving or find a new game to troll.

Quote

Pardon me, but if you’re in a ‘Mech like an ECM ERPPC Spider, ideally suited to pecking at the enemy from concealment, then you have no business ‘jockeying for position’ for over four minutes without firing a shot.

Thanks for pointing out a good reason for tonnage limits on light mech hardpoints.

[TygerLily]

If I see you maneuvering...I'd hold my tongue...otherwise, my typing fingers start to get itchy...