244 replies to this topic

[DocBach]

KraftySOT, on 30 October 2014 - 06:49 AM, said:

Yeah that one im disapointed about. AC20, 2x LPL, 2x MPL here.

10% less heat is nice but...really nothing im going to notice. *shrug* I always already wasting people left and right in the Wubshee so I guess it really didnt need much of a buff. Nothings going to get me to take the AC20 off.

Sad the Raven 3L didnt get ERLL buffs.

Also some of the quirks might not be here, might have changed, this is just what was tested. So what comes nov 4th might be different *crosses fingers*

Was disapointed to see NO srm quirks for splathawks.

Why use a single ac20 on a mech with 3 ballistic slots? The 3s would be a better candidate for your build, I think. The 3x ac5 2x ppc banshee appreciates the quirks quite a bit.

[KraftySOT]

Widowmaker1981, on 30 October 2014 - 08:00 AM, said:

AH, thats the only reason i could think of, running a giant standard engine.. still for me if you're putting a standard 400 in a 95 ton mech you'd be much better off running a heavy with a reasonable sized engine and the same firepower and speed, but smaller hitboxes

Widowmaker1981, on 30 October 2014 - 08:00 AM, said:

AH, thats the only reason i could think of, running a giant standard engine.. still for me if you're putting a standard 400 in a 95 ton mech you'd be much better off running a heavy with a reasonable sized engine and the same firepower and speed, but smaller hitboxes

Nah the CT armor makes all the difference. A heavy can take only 2 alphas from a Whales meta setup. You can take 3 in a Banshee.

I play like the koolaid man. UAV goes up, I see someone who isnt looking my way, rush in.... OOOOOHHH YEEAAAAH...twist. OOOOH YEEEAH...that target is dead. Then I run back to the mechball. The only assault that can pull that off.

[Almond Brown]

Artgathan, on 30 October 2014 - 07:41 AM, said:

stuff

Consider that in many cases bringing the right weapon nets a base 40% Cooldown Reduction (which can be increased to 57% with Efficiences and Modules). That's a lot of extra rounds downrange!

Or will cause the need for many to think they have to carry more ammo. Seeing as Weapons Trigger Finger Control (WTFC) is not a trait seen much in the PUG arena. LOL

[KraftySOT]

And frankly until lately, the Heavy queue was so long.....so long.....

Now its a better call ill grant you.

My train of thought is, dakka and lasers burn to long. Thats longer im staring at you. Wub an AC20, thats only .5 seconds of staring.

With a 400 standard, I can pop out like a medium, hit you, and back up before you turn around. If im lucky and did it right, you think a teammate just hit you. My Wubshee is the only thing im GOOD at...lol...but im sure people have better setups that work for them.

Im happy tho that heat gen is down and ballistics cooldown is down. So I might be able to switch out the ac 20 cool down module and throw in something else, since the only reason I had that was so the AC20 has the same cycle time as the LPL

Edited by KraftySOT, 30 October 2014 - 08:07 AM.

[Bront]

KhanCipher, on 30 October 2014 - 01:25 AM, said:

This list shows us why any SRM4/6 quirks should just be straight SRM quirks (same with LRMs), and that PGI thinks the AS7-K can be turned into a PPC/Gauss sniper... i'll let that sink in... The AS7-K has a lot problems and it not being able to be a sniper is the smallest and most insignificant of the problems it has (as all atlas variants have that problem, and it's mostly rooted in the location of the arm energy and ballistics.), but since the whale can do dual gauss/ppc "i'm sure the atlas can run 2xPPC+1Gauss". The K's 1 advantage only takes effect when rng rolls a bunch of Lurms on the enemy team, and if there isn't any lurms then you just wasted an assault slot when you could've taken a D-DC which covers the K's only advantage and then a lot more.

They did it by range of engagement. The K is the long range atlas just given it's lack of hardpoints and dual AMS, and an AC2 buff would be silly, so you get Gauss/PPC.

There were some interesting quirks in there. Some I didn't agree with, others I liked. Excited about the Stalker-3F for example, and even the Cicada 3M (since I run an LL/ML mix build as much as I run a 4 MPL build). Meanwhile, they apparently missed the boat on what to do with the Firestarter K and S (Small laser and Large laser buffs respectively), though I may try the K with small lasers now.

[Randall Flagg]

Line "939 Victor Dragon Slayer 80 1 Negative Quirks Removed"


This makes me smile.

Edited by SKINLESS, 30 October 2014 - 08:25 AM.

[Phashe]

I too like how they would split a stock mech quirks: for example, 12.5% for original ballistic, and another 12.5% for ANY ballistic. Nice compromise. I am a customization junky, and I still approve. Thanks.

[Duke Nedo]

Biggest swung: Awesomes!

Biggest disappointment: Flame gets useless stuff and it's not 2 tiers better than other others to start with. Obsolete hero...
2nd biggest: Battlemasters get Arms armour instead of Side torso armour, ST armour would really have helped them
3rd biggest: DDC, will need to be requirked after ecm-pass

Otherwise some good and some bad. For some mechs one wonders if the authors ever piloted that particular chassi...

[Pygar]

I has a question: If the quirks say both "AC/20 cool down 7.5%" and "Ballistic cool down 7.5%" for the same mech...does that stack up for a full 15% bonus suing an AC/20?

[DONTOR]

So who else is going to use a Cicada 3C with an ERPPC firing 45% faster with 25% more projectile speed with 50% less heat, with 25% more range... ME thats who. Anyone care to join me?

Thats nearly the equivelant of 2 ERPPCs for the tonnage of 1, + some MGs...

Edited by DONTOR, 30 October 2014 - 09:06 AM.

[salkeee]

Pygar, on 30 October 2014 - 09:00 AM, said:

I has a question: If the quirks say both "AC/20 cool down 7.5%" and "Ballistic cool down 7.5%" for the same mech...does that stack up for a full 15% bonus suing an AC/20?

Yes they stack that is point to buff a specific build a lot but still give buffs to other builds.

[Greenjulius]

My take on the improvements for mechs I own, or will own soon:

AS7-D - Solid Buffs for builds I commonly use.
AS7-RS - I would have preferred ERLL buffs, but LL targeted buffs are solid too.
AS7-DDC - More armor and slight improvement to ballistics? Doesn't hurt.
AS7-BH - I will actually be tempted to run a MPL boat again. The general Energy buffs will help my usual 6xERLL build, so I'm happy.
BLR-3M - Good buffs for my WubMaster, but the speed nerfs are not welcome. Remove these. It isn't competitive enough for these to make sense.
BLR-1S - All the more reason to pick this LRM boat up.
CTF-4X - I don't run this thing anymore, but I may try it again. Looks solid.
CTF-3D - I didn't like it before, and won't run it since there are no changes.
CTF-IM - Decent buffs. I may try AC10s again now that they are buffed, but my 2xGauss, 3xML build will be decently buffed as well.
CPLT-A1 - Decent. Not a big change, but should help.
CPLT-Jester - I wish it were ERLL buffs, but anything they can give me will help. Maybe just like the AS7-RS, I'll give LL a try because of the range boost.
CPLT-K2 - This will probably inspire me to try a 2xAC10, 4xML build.
CN9-A - Already have lots of XP on this, but probably won't break it out. Good brawling buffs for the established builds.
CN9-AH - I still haven't run this thing since getting it. I may take it out after the 4th.
JR7-D - Not much buff, but I guess it didn't need it.
JR7-F - Didn't need buffed. Maybe torso armor improvement?
JR7-Oxide - Badly needed buffs. These should help it a bit.
RVN-2x/4x - Look like good buffs, but I don't run these mechs anymore.
RVN-3L - Helps my information warfare build a bit. Some help for the legs is welcome.
RVN-Huggin - Badly needed buffs. These should help a lot.
SHD-2K - A few extra heatsinks worth of cooling + faster speeds? Sounds good.
SHD-2H - Great buff to my 2xAC5, 1xAC2 build.
SHD-2D2 - Not really enough for me to take this out again.
TDR-9S - The buffs are really nice. I may try this thing again.

All in all, I like the buffs.

[BrockSamsonFW]

Such specific quirks are going to cause problems and make the game unappealing to new or casual players.

• The same weapon now acts and performs differently not only on each chassis but on each variant of each chassis.
  
• For somebody not familiar with the lore and history of the game it is now even more difficult and confusing to choose the chassis group you want to play (and thanks to 3 variants to master and the costs involved, good luck if you make a mistake).
  
• Most people hate meta "best" builds but these quirks promote exactly that by giving each chassis variant a best/most efficient build to maximize the quirks.

I can imagine it now. A new player starts up and saw how cool the PPC is in his trial mech so he saves up for that other mech which looks really cool and can also fit PPCs. Finally he buys his first mech and it sucks because the PPCs travel slower, fire slower, and run much hotter than the trial mech. The new mech didn't have the same quirks, or perhaps the quirks were for the ER PPC and not the regular PPC. Some players might have enough fun and patience to stick with it and spend the days/weeks earning enough to "fix" their mistakes. Many players won't.

There should be fewer quirks and they should be much more generic so that the system is easy and simple to understand.

Look at the Awesome AWS-8Q for example...

• Torso Yaw Speed: 10%
  
• Torso Pitch Speed: 10%
  
• Additional Structure (CT): 20
  
• Additional Structure (LT&RT): 10
  
• PPC Heat Gen: -12.5%
  
• Energy Heat Gen: -12.5%
  
• PPC Range: 12.5%
  
• Energy Range: 12.5%
  
• PPC Velocity: 25%
  
• PPC Cooldown: 12.5%
  
• Energy Cooldown: 12.5%
  
• Laser Duration: -15%

Who is going to learn and remember all of that? A new or casual player certainly won't, but what they will do is quit when all of their mechs and weapons work differently and they constantly get killed by people who min/max everything to the extreme. On the other hand if you did something like this for all Awesome variants...

• -15% heat all PPC weapons

DONE. That's it. One quirk that is easy for everybody to understand and remember. One quirk that doesn't significantly change how the weapons work in comparison to the same weapons on every other chassis or variant. One quirk that modifies the chassis and not the weapons. Give each chassis one or maybe two simple and obvious quirks like that and it's all that is needed to differentiate and tweak the balance of each chassis without forcing people into a specific min/max meta build. Some basic concepts (not necessarily intended as actual suggestions) could be...

• Reduced heat for PPC, Laser, AC, LRM, SRM, or combinations (Energy/Ballistic/Missile, etc)
  
• Faster ROF for PPC, Laser, AC, LRM, SRM, or combinations (Energy/Ballistic/Missile, etc)
  
• Faster overall cooling
  
• Reduced/no camera shake when hit (Atlas/huge/stable mechs)
  
• Faster target locks (lrm support mechs)
  
• Faster target info (brawlers)
  
• Faster JJ recovery

Edited by BrockSamsonFW, 30 October 2014 - 09:33 AM.

[Felio]

The Arrow, 45-ton 'mech clearly designed to carry 6 machine guns, is getting AC/20 quirks. Is this some kind of placeholder data?

There is no better proof that they need to come up with a way to meaningfully quirk MGs.

[lshtaria]

I already loved the Centurion chassis and have pretty good success with it.

And now I'm going to love it even more after these quirks. Might need some more LB ammo for the -D with 52.5% cooldown reduction

[Greenjulius]

Felio, on 30 October 2014 - 11:01 AM, said:

The Arrow, 45-ton 'mech clearly designed to carry 6 machine guns, is getting AC/20 quirks. Is this some kind of placeholder data?

There is no better proof that they need to come up with a way to meaningfully quirk MGs.

They should just do something similar to what they did for the Huggin:

Additional Structure (LL&RL) 4
Additional Structure (LA&RA) 3
Machine Gun Range 12.5%
Ballistic Range 12.5%
SRM4 Range 12.5%
Missile Range 12.5%
SRM4 Cooldown 25%
Missile Cooldown 25%
Missile Heat Gen -15%

Clearly the Huggin is all about doing damage with fast firing SRM4's, but the 25% increase in MG range will stack well with the Range Mod 5, making MG range almost reasonable. I would like to see ROF or damage increases for MGs as well, but I doubt we'll see it.

MG Ranges with Mod5 and Quirk:

Range / Far
120 / 240 Stock
30 / 60 Quirks
13 / 26 Mod5
163 / 326 Total

Edited by Greenjulius, 30 October 2014 - 11:38 AM.

[Dazzer]

Myke Pantera, on 30 October 2014 - 03:45 AM, said:

From the mechs i have some knowledge about:

• The CN9-D is about 2xSRM6 + M(P)L with either a STD engine or XL engine and AC/2. Since the CN9-A already has SRM4 buffs (and rightly so) there is absolutely no point in giving the D variant the same buff. Also there is no good build with LBX + SRM4 where you don't have to either drop ML, Artemis or Ammo. So SRM6 & AC/2 (or 5) buffs please. Or how about SRM6+GeneralACBuffs? We are talking about the weakest CN9 anyways...

NOOOO ! dont you touch my beloved The CN9-D with LBX10 !

*hugs his CN9-D* 'dont listen to the nasty man '

[KhanCipher]

Bront, on 30 October 2014 - 08:21 AM, said:

They did it by range of engagement. The K is the long range atlas just given it's lack of hardpoints and dual AMS, and an AC2 buff would be silly, so you get Gauss/PPC.

But the problems with the AS7-K is rooted entirely in the lack of a decent "Left Hook" (missiles) to speak of, and all the places that you can put the Gauss/PPC is about hip height on the tallest chassis in the game. So giving it long range quirks isn't going to help the weakest variant of the tallest chassis in the game. What is going to help it is giving it more hardpoints to use.

Edited by KhanCipher, 30 October 2014 - 12:31 PM.

[Bront]

Felio, on 30 October 2014 - 11:01 AM, said:

The Arrow, 45-ton 'mech clearly designed to carry 6 machine guns, is getting AC/20 quirks. Is this some kind of placeholder data?

There is no better proof that they need to come up with a way to meaningfully quirk MGs.

Yeah, I did a double take on that. MGs at least get the range bonus. Not sure if the cooldown helps them too or not (maybe they do more DPS?)

KhanCipher, on 30 October 2014 - 12:31 PM, said:

But the problems with the AS7-K is rooted entirely in the lack of a decent "Left Hook" (missiles) to speak of, and all the places that you can put the Gauss/PPC is about hip height on the tallest chassis in the game. So giving it long range quirks isn't going to help the weakest variant of the tallest chassis in the game. What is going to help it is giving it more hardpoints to use.

I didn't say it was good, just why they did it.

I expect them to review several of these over the next month or so and tweak a few. I think the Atlas-K would have been better with LL and AC10 quirks (I had a nice 2xLL+AC10+2ML+LRM10 build that was a good medium range brawler and suited the K well). Or maybe give it extra AMS range/ROF.

[Greenjulius]

The pulse laser quirks are going to be way better now that pulse laser heat is in line with their non-pulse counterparts.

http://mwomercs.com/...nd-wub-changes/

Edited by Greenjulius, 30 October 2014 - 12:44 PM.