373 replies to this topic

[Averen]

Joseph Mallan, on 07 November 2014 - 05:38 AM, said:

its an effective weapon that costs a fair chunk to use every match. If you are playing in group Que, that explains WHY you are seeing so much arty. Though the most I have seen was 4... and 3 missed me.

My issue is that it's not a fair weapon in the first place.

[Piney II]

What's not fair about arty / air strikes?

Stay away from the red smoke!

[M4NTiC0R3X]

Just adding, or repeating, an opinion here:

Ever since they prevented the head damage + whatever else it was they did I haven't been getting bothered too much by them. I could see an entire team using arty/air vs another with little to none being OP but..

I have all the unlocks for air/arty/uav and I have arty/uav equipped on all my playable chassis, just to fill the slot though, I have used them maybe 3 times over a year because I don't like to spend money.

queue the players who say I'm holding my team back for not using them

[Joseph Mallan]

Averen, on 07 November 2014 - 05:40 AM, said:

My issue is that it's not a fair weapon in the first place.

Its 40K to buy one. even on the old economy I could almost replace one on a loss, in the new Economy I can always replace one and have change left over to buy a second and sometimes third. As I am not a top seed player by any measure, It seems fair to me.

M4NTiC0R3X, on 07 November 2014 - 05:42 AM, said:

Just adding, or repeating, an opinion here:

Ever since they prevented the head damage + whatever else it was they did I haven't been getting bothered too much by them. I could see an entire team using arty/air vs another with little to none being OP but..


queue the players who say I'm holding my team back for not using them

When did they do that stupid thing???

[Averen]

Joseph Mallan, on 07 November 2014 - 05:44 AM, said:

Its 40K to buy one. even on the old economy I could almost replace one on a loss, in the new Economy I can always replace one and have change left over to buy a second and sometimes third. As I am not a top seed player by any measure, It seems fair to me.

The player who buys an arty has an advantage over the one doesn't. And while all people can buy artillery, most won't. The game has a lot of these issues, mainly because of it's f2p-concept, but this one is to direct, unnecessary, and has no real place in the game.

Edited by Averen, 07 November 2014 - 05:54 AM.

[Piney II]

No real place in the game?

Arty / air strikes are great tools to dislodge the camped out death ball. They help keep the game moving.

I've eaten my share of them, but I've never been killed by them..................and I was usually being stupid to get into the situations where I was hit.

They are easy to counter - keep moving, stay situationally aware, and stay away from the red smoke.

Arty / air strikes are the price you're setting yourself up to pay if you want to camp.

[Joseph Mallan]

Averen, on 07 November 2014 - 05:52 AM, said:

The player who buys an arty has an advantage over the one doesn't. And while all people can buy artillery, most won't. The game has a lot of these issues, mainly because of it's f2p-concept, but this one is to direct, unnecessary, and has no real place in the game.

But not an advantage that is restricted. If I wanted to use one I can buy one. So then it is not an unfair advantage. And Artillery has no place in a game of combat/warfare? Are you sure?

Also PGI is the GM. As such, it's their game their rules. You would not get to dictate what is allowed on my Table and I cannot tell you how to run yours. Video games are NOT a Democracy.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 07 November 2014 - 07:04 AM.

[Sandtiger]

Mystere, on 06 November 2014 - 09:33 AM, said:

Then they will not be feared. We had that and they were almost always ignored.

It is precisely the threat of being instantly killed -- like real artillery -- that causes people to greatly fear them -- like real artillery.

Heck, in MWO, that probability is small.


I think it's now time to again include this obligatory video:



Watch what happens 17 seconds in.

Seeing is believing... Yeah, air strikes are evil, but they are supposed to be. Keep movin Lads!

[Sandtiger]

Kavoh, on 06 November 2014 - 09:52 AM, said:

So what I have gathered from this thread is, lets just remove artillery and airstrikes. Clearly because everyone is spewing this "just keep moving it won't hit you" "if you move when you see it, you're fine" and other greater strategies, no one ever hits with artillery and airstrikes, because all you have to do is move. Everyone's a Jenner. I mean, it's that simple right? I've never planted it in the path of a DWF walking down a city forcing him to attempt to turn away/slow down or push through quick enough only to not make it in time. That apparently doesn't do a ton of damage to whales and isn't unbelievably strong against them and other slow mechs/flanked mechs according to posters in this thread.

It's so incredibly easy to avoid them so obviously no one hits with them and they aren't effective/just a waste of developing resources.

No, good players make them work and don't just drop them when the first mech crests a hill, and while I do enjoy them/think they are a good addition to the game, I think they should at least have a longer cooldown (not so much less damage, as if it's not a threat no one will even care to notice them). as was discussed in the other topic.

Something that is a cheap support module with zero drawbacks shouldn't be so plentiful AND strong.

PS: Highlighted the important sentence to drive home the fact that I am pro-strike and not to take this as an anti-strike post. I just feel this "just keep moving" garbage is the same as people saying "just duck" to people who are getting shot/got shot at and its irritating.

Kavoh,
I have to disagree with you. You should buddy up, but not be rubbing elbows with your team mates in the first place. My unit constantly keep's each other moving so we are harder targets. I agree that air strikes shouldn't be removed from the game. But keeping your feet moving does help immeasurably. Which is why my unit has survived up to five air strikes per match before. =]

[WarHippy]

Joseph Mallan, on 07 November 2014 - 05:26 AM, said:

Kid got under your skin did he Hippy?

Yes and no, it was late and I was tired of his attitude. After two threads yesterday full of the same nonsense I just had enough and resorted to their same BS.

[Sandtiger]

wwiiogre, on 06 November 2014 - 11:15 AM, said:

The OP is absolutely correct as is the first response to this topic. They are over powered and two in a row can kill any mech since they always hit your head. Always and two shots to the head is usually enough to drop any mech.

They are also part of pay to win. Note the mc arty/air are more powerful, not by much but just enough that two can head kill any mech.

I also was recently arty/air spammed and in a 100% health Atlas was taken to 60% in an air, then an arty strike that both came over the top of a ridge. Meaning I was not in line of sight, did not see the smoke and then they hit the area. I was not lrming from that area and had not even peaked over yet, nor were any of my teammates visible or lrming either.

Arty needs to be exactly in line with table top. In that they hit only in a 30 meter radius and only do damage to legs and must be directed by tag during the shot. Meaning, you must have tag to use, you must hold tag onto ground during time of flight of arty.

Air on the other hand once again should also be similar to table top. Which it currently is. But you need to pick which aero mech strike is attacking and the package should list which weapons are being used by your strike. Such that if the aero mech you picked has lasers, then they stream in a straight line and as they are currently time on target will spread across a mech.

It is currently way overpowered, is basically pay to win and cheating such that it takes almost no skill and can give you immense damage output and kills for less than most weapons cost.

The cost for both of these modules needs to be tripled or put in line with other module costs and made a non consumable and you have to put it in a mech or weapon module slot and still only get a single shot from it during a game. Which means you cannot use some of the other cool modules and have to make choices.

Choices are good, spamming low priced massive damage bonuses is lame in a skill based game.

Anyone that is a proponent of how arty/air works at this moment is a meta player and very selfish since it currently is out of balance for a skill based simulation style game and is only in the game because of Paulanomics and money grubbing by PGI.

Chris

NEGATIVE! They are NOT pay to win, because you can purchase them with in game currency. I'll be honest. I hate getting blasted by them too. It's frustrating when you get nearly five in a row. But, if the other team wants to spend away their earnings on air strikes. So be it. It's kind of nice when you come out of a constant barrage of air strikes, and still kick the salvage out of the enemy team.

[Sandtiger]

WarHippy, on 06 November 2014 - 12:06 PM, said:

Complete nonsense.
Not pay to win, and once you upgrade them the c-bill version is exactly the same as the MC version. Once a gain complete nonsense, and factually wrong.
Yet, someone clearly spotted you. Just because you didn't see them or the smoke doesn't mean you were not seen. Also there is a global cool down so it would be impossible to get "spammed". Granted it is only 10 seconds, but that is more than enough time to move before the second one can be deployed.
More nonsense. Not overpowered at all, not remotely pay to win, definitely not cheating, and nowhere near immense damage.
So very glad you are not in charge of balance.
Yet you fail the skill test in this skill based game by failing to move.
Right, I forgot the best way to prove a point is to demean and hand wave anyone with a different opinion.
Aardvark

Warhippy, you now have a new friend. I love you man! ~Grins

[Joseph Mallan]

yeah, Hippy is The Man. Which is not to be confused with being THE MAN!

[AssaultPig]

Piney, on 07 November 2014 - 06:08 AM, said:

No real place in the game?

Arty / air strikes are great tools to dislodge the camped out death ball. They help keep the game moving.

I've eaten my share of them, but I've never been killed by them..................and I was usually being stupid to get into the situations where I was hit.

They are easy to counter - keep moving, stay situationally aware, and stay away from the red smoke.

Arty / air strikes are the price you're setting yourself up to pay if you want to camp.

they don't really discourage camping though

I mean, the risk of maybe getting hit by a strike isn't enough to make pilots walk out into direct fire, or not hillhump, or whatever. It's also really likely that you don't see the strike coming anyway, which means that you never know there's an incentive to move; you just take some damage.

theyshould be area denial types of utility weapons, but right now they aren't; they're just used for direct damage

[Barantor]

I'm fine with them, not with as much spam of them though.

This game is about mechs, not off-map artillery. I've always thought that if there is artillery and these aircraft coming overhead, then there should be more npc vehicles in key locations like tanks.

Let's have it one way or the other, not just some consumable thing that is spammed. If it is combined arms, let's go all the way boys!

I've often thought that forest colony would be good as an expanded map with a ship off shore with the turrets on it instead of a base on land as there is now......(remember those first few missions in MW4:Merc?)

[TyphonCh]

This is an extremely exaggerated rant. The radius of drops isn't tight enough. You have to extremely unlucky to get hit by more than 2, and even more so to get hit in the head.

Pics or it didn't happen.

[Sandtiger]

Telmasa, on 06 November 2014 - 07:21 PM, said:

Per a post on the front page - "to hammer a point":
















Instead of adding my own personally spun rant, I'll simply add this quote, since it says everything else I wanted to add:






Arsehat.
Nothing in your reply was reasoned or constructive, purely derogatory in manner. Why anybody felt the urge to "like" your reply is completely beyond me.

The fact that your attitude is shared by other artillery users, says something about you and others who use it and are now trying to defend its (ab)use.



Then uninstall this game and go play Call of Duty. That's where that kind of gameplay belongs. NOT HERE.
I have gotten into MWO specifically to get away from that kind of gameplay.
And I know that I am not alone.



To wrap up:
Objectively, this seems like the best middle ground approach to me:

Telmasa,
I am rarely rude to people on the forums these days, so If I come across a little harsh I apologize in advance. Let me start by asking some rhetorical questions.

1. Is this not a game of future simulated combat? Why yes it is!

2. Are air strikes used in our military today with devastating effects to enemy forces? Most certainly, during the Clinton administration and even now under the obamination administration.

3. How does it not take skill to use an air strike? You target a mech for four seconds, put your cross hairs on them, and push the associated button right? An immeasurable amount of time for you to be seen and shot at.

4. If you have a great match and earn anywhere from 150K to 250K (without premium time) You have just spent $40,000 in winnings for that match right? So if you buy a new gaming rig, wouldn't you want the most bang for your buck. Or would you really pay $1,000.00 + for a single core processor?

Now I don't like getting hit with Arty's either, in fact no one does. But to say they are over powered or have no place in this game is simple nonsense (in my opinion)

Objectively this discussion is moot. Historically, people who are killed by a weapon in this game have ALWAYS complained that it is over powered, or that it needs restrictions, or Nerfed in some way. Instead of just saying. OMG! I got creamed! I shouldn't have been a stationary target! I'll have to learn to keep moving.

The problem is not the problem, it is merely the inability of players to admit their skills are substandard, and their lack of initiative or drive to improve necessary piloting skills that would make them more effective players.

Now THAT is COD^

[Sandtiger]

Scrotacus 42, on 06 November 2014 - 04:15 PM, said:

*sigh over the weekend I was literally one-shotted in the head in a JENNER, moving 150 kph while I was in mid air. Total bullshit.

Im pretty sure arty strikes actually did 15 damage per shell when I started a year and a half ago. But 35 damage is just ridiculous, by my count that means theres what, 20 other more moderate numbers you could have picked? Look 25 damage would still hurt plenty bad enough for arty to do its job. That's still stronger than ac/20s. Lots of others have made these points but let me reiterate some of the good ones:

1: this is an arena shooter that's outcomes should be determined by skill, arty in its current form requires almost none of that
2: It makes comp matches bloody awful to play in
3: nobody ******* bothers to arty moving targets, and they always put that **** right behind you so you cant see it if you are in the PUG queue and no one can call it out for you
4: The fact it has unlimited range is stupid unless they change the mechanics of it to work like how Nikolai Kabrinsky described on page 3 (basically that only mechs with a command console/targeting computer/dedicated spotting ability be able to call it in).
5: the team cooldown on it needs to be way, way longer as it is the only way we can effectively limit them to say 4-6 per side per match.
6: In its current form you basically have to carry it if you are even halfway serious.
7: No, in fact it doesn't always make sense to be constantly moving, or have all you elite players forgotten all the times you snap out on people to stay in cover? So yes there are times you really cant do anything about it since after all, what I'm supposed to move to where enemy lrm boats can lock me? **** that.

But don't worry OP, you can start all the threads and polls you want, PGI wont listen and all the super l33t players who never actually play in the PUG queue and have people on teamspeak to call it out for them will keep bashing you and telling you its fine, but rest assured you are absolutely correct, it IS NOT FINE.

Arty has its place, but that place needs to be a little more moderate. 20-30 points per shell and a team cooldown of at least two minutes between arty strikes would be a great start.
Whats hilarious to me is that its blatantly obvious there is no argument here, people like the OP and myself and the others in the nerf arty camp are completely correct, so stop standing in the way of progress. No one in the pro arty camp has made even one good argument for why they nshould keep it as is, not one. You know why? Because there isn't one and its painfully obvious.

Let me get this straight... You are complaining that because you get hit with arty in a light mech, that it nearly destroys you, or outright destroys you?

*Smacks Forehead* No offense, but do you not sacrifice armor and durability for insane amounts of speed, and maneuverability? Sorry, you can't be a light, and an assault at the same time. You have to choose wisely young grasshopper. =]

[Joseph Mallan]

Sandtiger, on 07 November 2014 - 07:48 AM, said:

Let me get this straight... You are complaining that because you get hit with arty in a light mech, that it nearly destroys you, or outright destroys you?

*Smacks Forehead* No offense, but do you not sacrifice armor and durability for insane amounts of speed, and maneuverability? Sorry, you can't be a light, and an assault at the same time. You have to choose wisely young grasshopper. =]

The Grasshopper isn't released yet... Just sayin.

[Sandtiger]

WarHippy, on 06 November 2014 - 10:37 PM, said:

Perhaps because I am right, and he was heavily exaggerating everything he said?
Sorry, but I almost never use arty or air strikes as I find them only marginally useful. I also feel c-bill income is way below where it should be so I'm not going to waste the money. They are not nearly as strong as the whiners are making it out to be.

You know, it is against my personal ethos to tell someone to play another game, but in your case I can make an exception. Uninstall if you have a problem with arty/air strikes as they are part of the game as they should be. Hello Kitty online might be a better fit for you. I got into Battletech and Mechwarrior for the lore, the giant robots, and the mixed arms combat, and I know I'm not alone either.

Amen Brother!