551 replies to this topic

[Sandpit]

Mystere, on 27 December 2015 - 01:15 AM, said:

Well, quite a number of people seem to have this insane idea that the only way you can see and shoot the enemy is "up close and personal".

Tell me about it

I just shake my head when someone yells over mic or types in chat "you coward in the back suck". "In the back", by the way, is about 150-200 meters behind the front line of our firing lines because *gasp* guess where muh lurmy thangies are most effective?!!?!? Well goooolleeeee, what do ya know, they're most effective at about 4-700 meters (with effectiveness beyond that range being more situational than anything else) which, if my brawlers are 1-200 meters away from THEIR front line, that puts me anywhere from about 4-500 meters away from the opponent's brawling mechs and still puts me in range to lob lurms on any support mechs they have as well as help direct traffic with a wider view of the melee unfolding. THen I continue listening to stuff like that
until the scoreboard that is
when those yelling and complaining show about 200 damage and 1-2 assists, while I commonly break over 700 damage and get a kill or two in the process.
They usually just disco without another word at that point. Especially if it's one of those tryhards that likes to scream at "the team" because they did something stupid and got killed early on and we still manage to pull out a hard fought win.

To some of you, as much as I hate to say it, this entire topic, subject, argument, etc. is a prime example of you needing to "git gud" and "L2P" a bit more.

Your blanket statements in regards to usefulness and skills in using a weapon system speak volumes to your own personal limitations more than anything else. The ones screaming "me no locky", that's fine, most of us that understand the real issue behind trying to support ideas and threads like this, besides the most obvious being new players coming to the forums and picking up some REALLY bad advice sham on some of you "vets" for helping with that and then wondering where they pick up bad habits that YOU later have to "carry", will leave you well behind as you stagnate or drop tiers and we progress.

GL&GH

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

I hit "R" frequently and I can't say I know of anyone that purposefully doesn't. That said, as others have said, I won't "hold the lock" if it means I need to be exposed any longer than I should be.

If I drop lock on that Direwhale, it means he's starting shooting back.

If I drop lock on that Splatcrow suddenly, I'm likely shielding and not looking at the target while my weapons are on cooldown.

If I drop lock on that Laservomit Timber, he likely ducked behind cover or I did.


Instances I don't hit 'R': I'm back stabbing and locking-on gives the cockpit flash letting them know they've been targeted.



There's also the thing about getting the reading on a wounded mech and seeing he has an open <insert component> then dips behind cover, dropping lock. If he pops back out I don't need to hit 'R' to know <insert component> is still open. Then there's the given target components such as the left torso of a Hellbringer or TDR-9SE.


Either way, I still can't say I know anyone that intentionally doesn't get locks. At the very least it says, "Hey! I found the Nacho Cheese Doritos over here" so people know where to go.

[Kjudoon]

But arguing for lrm buffs is not very popular... With a small minority with back channel access to pgi because they want esports and lrms dont fit the esports mould.

Ftfy

[Captain Stiffy]

Kjudoon, on 27 December 2015 - 01:47 AM, said:

But arguing for lrm buffs is not very popular... With a small minority with back channel access to pgi because they want esports and lrms dont fit the esports mould.

Ftfy

Right so basically there is no solution and the whiners are effectively saying "I should be able to force people to play the way that I want them to play."

[Kjudoon]

Thank you for reminding me of another reason i hate raderp.


But i thought it was when you BROKE lock you got the flash and squee.

[Kjudoon]

Stiffy that is the complete opposite of what i said. You play what you want. The reason lrms are so weak is because there is a select minority that has pgis attention that lrms have no place in esports. The problem is these are the same kind that wrecked indirect fire in world of tanks arty. I know it is one thing i love aboutnworld of warships. ALL guns are indirect fire rng. And very slow travelling.

The only whiners saying "you must play my way" are those of the same thought processes of get your own locks you easy mode cowards.

[sneeking]

Maybe derp shouldn't give the flash and blip, realy it should be an active mod like ecm that needs to be switched on to scatter a signal and reduce accuracy of missiles, increasing spread and arc in flight path so they don't track in so well after losing lost. If they did not buff the missiles themselves but addressed the derp from been a hard cutoff to a increased spread and looser tracking arc.

Then % of spread and arc could be tweaked over time for balance.

Edited by sneeking, 27 December 2015 - 02:13 AM.

[Kjudoon]

It should also require an ecm slot

[MischiefSC]

Not about 'play the way I want'. It's about ultimate meta. Meta is about doing more damage to them than they do to you. Indirect fire is the ultimate evolution of that; shooting someone who can't shoot you back. If it's not absolutely inferior to direct fire then it's absolutely superior to direct fire.

Beyond that, weapons that just lock and shoot are 'lower skill' than weapons that require direct fire. More to the point, they have a lower skill cap; you max out their potential relatively early compared to a direct fire weapon. This absolutely does kill e-sports because if A) indirect fire is directly comparable to direct fire weapons for performance (and is thus absolutely superior; again, shooting someone who can't shoot back > shooting someone who can shoot back) and B ) like all locking weapons the skill cap is pretty low there isn't any reason to 'git gud' at it.

Indirect fire is a bad mechanic for a FPS. It's fine for a RTS and the like; in a FPS though it's always going to skew the meta. It'll either be trash or it'll be OP. It'll either be totally situational and easy to defeat or it'll be flat out superior to any other options. Hence why you don't see it in pretty much any PvP FPS games like this.

[sneeking]

For one thing it is an anti missile tech or at least should be, right now its an eyeballs on me alert system and with anything under the reticle been auto targeted you can't observe as a scout or snipe and flank using gauss a/c ppc or laser without warning them.

Kjudoon, on 27 December 2015 - 02:14 AM, said:

It should also require an ecm slot

Make it take an ams slot instead.

[Mystere]

Kjudoon, on 27 December 2015 - 01:56 AM, said:

The reason lrms are so weak is because there is a select minority that has pgis attention that lrms have no place in esports. The problem is these are the same kind that wrecked indirect fire in world of tanks arty. I know it is one thing i love aboutnworld of warships. ALL guns are indirect fire rng. And very slow travelling.

MischiefSC, on 27 December 2015 - 02:19 AM, said:

Indirect fire is a bad mechanic for a FPS.

Hilarious! Having no effective indirect fire capability seems to fit very nicely with a "minimally viable" Battletech game, just like having Clan companies made up of 3 Clan lances of 4 Clan Mechs each.

Edited by Mystere, 27 December 2015 - 02:32 AM.

[Lyoto Machida]

sneeking, on 27 December 2015 - 02:12 AM, said:

Maybe derp shouldn't give the flash and blip, realy it should be an active mod like ecm that needs to be switched on to scatter a signal and reduce accuracy of missiles, increasing spread and arc in flight path so they don't track in so well after losing lost. If they did not buff the missiles themselves but addressed the derp from been a hard cutoff to a increased spread and looser tracking arc.

Then % of spread and arc could be tweaked over time for balance.

sneeking, on 27 December 2015 - 02:21 AM, said:

For one thing it is an anti missile tech or at least should be, right now its an eyeballs on me alert system and with anything under the reticle been auto targeted you can't observe as a scout or snipe and flank using gauss a/c ppc or laser without warning them.



Make it take an ams slot instead.

Remove the incoming missile warning unless AMS is equipped.

[Catra Lanis]

Sometimes I ask for locks. That doesn't mean that I'm asking the other guy to go out of his way to lock or needlessly risk his neck. What I'm asking (and what a lot of lrm hating people don't seem to understand) is that you lock when you can do so, when it costs you nothing because you are duking it out with that Dire Wolf anyway. If you do I can support you and make your life easier.

[Mystere]

Lyoto Machida, on 27 December 2015 - 02:30 AM, said:

Remove the incoming missile warning unless AMS is equipped.

And force people to equip AMS? What are you taking about? Who do you think demanded loudly for that incoming missile warning in the first place?

Edited by Mystere, 27 December 2015 - 02:35 AM.

[Kilo 40]

MischiefSC, on 27 December 2015 - 02:19 AM, said:

weapons that just lock and shoot are 'lower skill' than weapons that require direct fire.

hilarious....

peak around corner, point, click, go back behind cover = "skillz"

vs

find target, lose target, find target, start to get lock, lose lock, start to get lock, lose lock, get lock, fire, immediately lose lock. get lock, fire, realize you have the wrong angle and the LRMs are hitting something, back away to get the correct angle, lose lock, watch mini map waiting for a lock, start to get lock on an ECM mech, waaaaaiiiittt ffffooorrr lllloooccckkk ttttoooo ccccoooommmppplllleeeettteee, fire, immediately lose lock. watch triple AMS kitfox eat up all your LRMs, reposition, get lock, keep lock, start firing on enemy mech brawling with a friendly mech, manage to keep locks and keep firing, end match with 12 assists and a couple of kills and in the top three for match score and damage, then get told you contributed nothing and all your kills were kill steals. = "low skill"

[Kjudoon]

And then only allow ams to shoot missiles aimed at the mech it is mounted on since they cant fix it shooting through walls and other objects.

[Wintersdark]

KinLuu, on 27 December 2015 - 01:37 AM, said:

Not really, much to my own dissapointment. The time-to-target of lrms is far too high to reliably punish poking. Because of this, lurms weirdly work best in medium to close range firefights.

But arguing for lrm buffs is not very popular.

Because LRM's don't need buffs per say, they need a mechanic change that fixes how they're grossly OP at T5 scaling down to useless at T1. You could make them useful at T1 by buffing them, but that would make them godlike in t5. Or nerf them in t5 and they move to utterly useless at t3.

No, LRM's need fundamental changes to their mechanics.

[Kjudoon]

And while not removing indirect fire which is the one mechanic they posses that makes them worth while what change WOULD be acceptable? Indirect fire is lore and the only thing keeping them from being a very slow guided lbx weapon that can easily be parri3d electronically or have damage reduced.

[adamts01]

Wintersdark, on 27 December 2015 - 03:43 AM, said:

Because LRM's don't need buffs per say, they need a mechanic change that fixes how they're grossly OP at T5 scaling down to useless at T1. You could make them useful at T1 by buffing them, but that would make them godlike in t5. Or nerf them in t5 and they move to utterly useless at t3.

No, LRM's need fundamental changes to their mechanics.

This kind of nails it. LRMs punish stupid.

[KinLuu]

Kjudoon, on 27 December 2015 - 03:48 AM, said:

And while not removing indirect fire which is the one mechanic they posses that makes them worth while what change WOULD be acceptable? Indirect fire is lore and the only thing keeping them from being a very slow guided lbx weapon that can easily be parri3d electronically or have damage reduced.

I would increase missile speed, which would buff their reliability, while also inceasing their cooldown, which would nerf their potential dps.