551 replies to this topic

[Wintersdark]

Mystere, on 27 December 2015 - 11:48 PM, said:

The solution is actually already right in front of everybody's eyes I can't believe most don't even see it: get rid of the public queues and split and distribute them to the Training Academy and Solaris. For crying out loud, they were meant to be just fillers, not "The Game". But sadly they have become a "major feature" along with a number of other fillers that also ended up as such (i.e. current skill tree).

I won't touch What Should Have Been, that's a pointless discussion now. But the scrap the public queues? Distribute them - that is, essentially all the players in the game to the training academy (wut? That's not even a game) and Solaris, which doesn't exist? What's the game design for Solaris? Not fluffy background stuff, actual game design?

Sorry, but that went far off the deep end right there.

[Screech]

Wintersdark, on 28 December 2015 - 09:27 AM, said:

I won't touch What Should Have Been, that's a pointless discussion now. But the scrap the public queues? Distribute them - that is, essentially all the players in the game to the training academy (wut? That's not even a game) and Solaris, which doesn't exist? What's the game design for Solaris? Not fluffy background stuff, actual game design?

Sorry, but that went far off the deep end right there.

That seems to be their solution to all of MWO problems, to kill the one aspect of the game that is doing well. Not sure where the bad idea came from but they are doubling down on it at every turn. I think it is a mixture in equal parts of sour grapes and cyanide.

[Wildstreak]

Extremist Pain, on 26 December 2015 - 03:31 PM, said:

MechWarrior is a team game. Im not sure where this belief that supporting your team is too much. For example, i was just asking for locks in a game and i was told to get my own locks. Im sorry if asking for a contribution is too much, but if you dont feel like being a member of the team, dont play a team based game. You think you can win this game without my help, go ahead and try. Ill enjoy watching you fail.

I understand your point but you have been here long enough to know the following.
1 - Solo Quick Play is probably the most selfish mode forcing players to be more self-reliant including LRM users. This has actually encouraged some to develop LRM Mech tactics and builds that help them and the team while not being so reliant on the team for locks. There are topics in the Guides section that show how to do just this, there is also another topic where issues like having allies get locks affects gameplay.
2 - To get a team that assists with locks, it would be best for you to look into a Unit that does this if you are not in a unit already. Then you can be assured in Group Quick Play you will have locks provided by the team.

[Mystere]

Wintersdark, on 28 December 2015 - 09:27 AM, said:

I won't touch What Should Have Been, that's a pointless discussion now. But the scrap the public queues? Distribute them - that is, essentially all the players in the game to the training academy (wut? That's not even a game) and Solaris, which doesn't exist? What's the game design for Solaris? Not fluffy background stuff, actual game design?

Sorry, but that went far off the deep end right there.

Seriously?

It's called PGI finally coming up with a solid plan to remove all the "once fillers that are now major features"^© and replace them with what should have been there in the first place (i.e. a more functional "The Game", as in Community Warfare) and/or (and this is the key part ) speed up the development of an additional feature they have already mentioned to compensate for past (or is it continuing? ) deficiencies in their vision, planning, design, and implementation.

Because right now after over three years, from my point of view (and I am sure others share the same), it very much looks like PGI is still in reactive instead of proactive mode.

Screech, on 28 December 2015 - 09:31 AM, said:

That seems to be their solution to all of MWO problems, to kill the one aspect of the game that is doing well. Not sure where the bad idea came from but they are doubling down on it at every turn. I think it is a mixture in equal parts of sour grapes and cyanide.

See above.

Unless of course people are satisfied with just the fillers and nothing but the fillers all this time. Those and the worse than half-baked implementations that we have now.

That's a "minimally viable product" for ya!


Edit:

You saying that the fillers are "doing well" is actually a very apt description of the current state of the game (i.e. MWO, PGI, and player base).

As for your "sour grapes and cyanide" comment, all I can say is LOL!

Edited by Mystere, 28 December 2015 - 09:52 AM.

[Mystere]

Rhent, on 28 December 2015 - 09:08 AM, said:

You use tag when you are making a run against a mech OR if you see LRM's coming to hit an enemy mech. You only have to ping them once and tag lasts for 1 sec. So you can time your tag to get the bonus AND not give away your position. However, with heat vision, ECM lights are plain as day to me. I don't have an issue seeing them or countering them. Plus when they fire ERLL, it exposes their position. It would be different if they could run Gauss with enough ammo to be dangerous AND speed pop, shoot, scoot no one can find them.

Considering TAG is actually infra-red, make the beam invisible or at the very least subject to atmospheric conditions.

Edited by Mystere, 28 December 2015 - 09:47 AM.

[Screech]

Mystere, on 28 December 2015 - 09:40 AM, said:

Unless of course people are satisfied with just the fillers and nothing but the fillers all this time. Those and the worse than half-baked implementations that we have now.

That's a "minimally viable product" for ya!


Edit:

You saying that the fillers are "doing well" is actually a very apt description of the current state of the game (i.e. MWO, PGI, and player base).

And this relates to LRMs getting their own locks how? Or does that really matter anymore to you?

[MechWarrior3671771]

Heh. 22 pages now just because some guy asked "please try to hold locks".

Some people are not being honest about why they hate those that ask for locks.

Last night we had a shotcaller ask us to take Theta first. I thought that was a stupid idea. So I didn't do it.
But I wasn't motivated to grief him in chat for asking. I didn't feel a need to start a forum war over it either.

So what's your excuse?

[Mystere]

Screech, on 28 December 2015 - 10:27 AM, said:

And this relates to LRMs getting their own locks how? Or does that really matter anymore to you?

Then stop responding!

Besides, in case you have not noticed, the last several pages were nothing more than a love quarrel between two posters.

As for LRMs and locks, there is a very good reason for the hate (and yes, it is indeed "hate") thrown at people asking for locks.

Fen Tetsudo, on 28 December 2015 - 10:29 AM, said:

Some people are not being honest about why they hate those that ask for locks.

Of course they're not!

Edited by Mystere, 28 December 2015 - 10:33 AM.

[Kjudoon]

Quote

Fen Tetsudo, on 28 December 2015 - 12:29 PM, said:

Some people are not being honest about why they hate those that ask for locks.

Mystere wrote:

Of course they're not!

Narcissism. She's a nasty beast to have running your decision making process. Hides so many truths because you forget you're not the center of the universe.

[Screech]

Mystere, on 28 December 2015 - 10:30 AM, said:

Then stop responding!

Besides, in case you have not noticed, the last several pages were nothing more than a love quarrel between two posters.

As for LRMs and locks, there is a very good reason for the hate (and yes, it is indeed "hate") thrown at people asking for locks.

I see no reason why I need to censor myself because others are unable. But I do agree with you that asking for locks is silly.

[Mystere]

Screech, on 28 December 2015 - 10:49 AM, said:

I see no reason why I need to censor myself because others are unable. But I do agree with you that asking for locks is silly.

I'm afraid you got me all wrong. Asking for locks is not silly at all, not one bit. It's a reminder for the team to target the enemy so the rest knows who/what they are fighting against. It's important information.

Also, the OP is not demanding that someone hold locks at great risk if they are not able to, just that people lock their targets for the benefit of everyone.

And yes, I have been here long enough to have seen countless players refusing to lock targets because "They're just going to steal my kills!". <smh>

[Mystere]

Wildstreak, on 28 December 2015 - 09:33 AM, said:

I understand your point but you have been here long enough to know the following.
1 - Solo Quick Play is probably the most selfish mode forcing players to be more self-reliant including LRM users. This has actually encouraged some to develop LRM Mech tactics and builds that help them and the team while not being so reliant on the team for locks. There are topics in the Guides section that show how to do just this, there is also another topic where issues like having allies get locks affects gameplay.
2 - To get a team that assists with locks, it would be best for you to look into a Unit that does this if you are not in a unit already. Then you can be assured in Group Quick Play you will have locks provided by the team.

I will be brutally frank. The solo quick play mode is an unhealthy environment that promotes selfishness. It is an environment that becomes even more unhealthy because of the extreme selfishness that rears it's horrible head during so-called "events" and "tournaments".

It must be disposed of asap and relegated to the Training Academy for new players and a properly developed Solaris mode that encourages but separates personal and team achievements.

[Satan n stuff]

Mystere, on 28 December 2015 - 11:15 AM, said:

I will be brutally frank. The solo quick play mode is an unhealthy environment that promotes selfishness. It is an environment that becomes even more unhealthy because of the extreme selfishness that rears it's horrible head during so-called "events" and "tournaments".

It must be disposed of asap and relegated to the Training Academy for new players and a properly developed Solaris mode that encourages but separates personal and team achievements.

If we put all the solo players in a game mode that promotes solo play to the exclusion of everything else, they'll just learn even worse behavior which will need to be dealt with if they ever decide to play as part of a team.

Edited by Satan n stuff, 28 December 2015 - 11:41 AM.

[MischiefSC]

If a carpenter likes to drive nails with a rock he's not "more skilled". He's just using a bad tool to get the job done.

In fact there is nothing a rock will do that his other tools won't do better. It's just a bad tool. It won't make him a better carpenter because it just teaches him bad habits. He'll never be as good as a carpenter who learns to use the right tools the right way.

He's not better for it, he's worse. He's doing worse work too. The rock has a low skill cap because it just doesn't work as well as a hammer so by using a rock he'll never be as good or build the same quality of goods as some how uses the right tools and learns to use them well.

Lrms are bad tools. They are not harder, they are just inferior. Using them teaches bad habits. You will never get as good at mwo using them as using a df weapon setup. The skill cap is lower because in addition to what's been stated before that tool does not teach you the full range of skills to be successful.

I've already gone over how to make lrms a better tool imo. There is no argument over their being bad. That has been proven in the game beyond a shadow of a doubt. The weapon is currently only effective relative to the skill of your target. Fixing that involves moving the weapons performance envelope closer to df.

[Mystere]

Satan n stuff, on 28 December 2015 - 11:37 AM, said:

If we put all the solo players in a game mode that promotes solo play to the exclusion of everything else, they'll just learn even worse behavior which will need to be dealt with if they ever decide to play as part of a team.

https://youtu.be/aQIMq66HpRw?t=5m51s

I'm perfectly fine with that as far as I am concerned. They'll just be like seals fed to sharks if they decide to get out of safe water -- and will be rightfully ridiculed for complaining while doing so.

[Mystere]

MischiefSC, on 28 December 2015 - 11:42 AM, said:

If a carpenter likes to drive nails with a rock he's not "more skilled". He's just using a bad tool to get the job done.

In fact there is nothing a rock will do that his other tools won't do better. It's just a bad tool. It won't make him a better carpenter because it just teaches him bad habits. He'll never be as good as a carpenter who learns to use the right tools the right way.

He's not better for it, he's worse. He's doing worse work too. The rock has a low skill cap because it just doesn't work as well as a hammer so by using a rock he'll never be as good or build the same quality of goods as some how uses the right tools and learns to use them well.

Lrms are bad tools. They are not harder, they are just inferior. Using them teaches bad habits. You will never get as good at mwo using them as using a df weapon setup. The skill cap is lower because in addition to what's been stated before that tool does not teach you the full range of skills to be successful.

I've already gone over how to make lrms a better tool imo. There is no argument over their being bad. That has been proven in the game beyond a shadow of a doubt. The weapon is currently only effective relative to the skill of your target. Fixing that involves moving the weapons performance envelope closer to df.

You're not going to get much disagreement from me on that. But, a few quick fixes should not be unwarranted:

• make TAG invisible or at the very least subject to atmospheric conditions
  
• remove the incoming missile warning or bring back the warning we used to have when a player is locked
  
• make UAVs travel a straight line from dispatching mech to a target grid location instead of just going vertical

As for a longer-term solution, do this.

[Screech]

Mystere, on 28 December 2015 - 11:00 AM, said:

I'm afraid you got me all wrong. Asking for locks is not silly at all, not one bit. It's a reminder for the team to target the enemy so the rest knows who/what they are fighting against. It's important information.

Also, the OP is not demanding that someone hold locks at great risk if they are not able to, just that people lock their targets for the benefit of everyone.

And yes, I have been here long enough to have seen countless players refusing to lock targets because "They're just going to steal my kills!". <smh>

Guess I just have more faith in my team when I am using LRMs and I don't need to tell them how to play the game because of what I have chosen to equip in the mech lab. Still I rarely have a lack of available locks even when I am unable to get them. Heck I even get regular NARCs and UAV and without the need to tell others what they should be doing.

Also never ran into people who "hid" their locks for fear of "stealing a kill" but then I don't even believe in the concept of "kill stealing" in a team game. Lucky me I guess, though I think luck has little to do with it.

[Mystere]

Screech, on 28 December 2015 - 12:12 PM, said:

Also never ran into people who "hid" their locks for fear of "stealing a kill" ...

Good for you. Unfortunately, my experience is not the same, not even close.

[MischiefSC]

I'd be good with all that. Also posted prior my fix for lrms. Locking like they do now, not like streaks. Just a flat/fast trajectory.

[Sandpit]

ChewBaka, on 28 December 2015 - 04:37 AM, said:

If you want to play whatever mech you like, you should also accept that other people are going to play however they like too. It works both ways.

taking whatever you want has NO bearing on working together as a team. If you run off and abandon mechs on a regular basis like that I promise you're going to do much worse on average overall than players who don't do things like that.

Your'e on a team. Your personal opinion on a build has zero relevance on being in a match with someone who's build you personally think is "bad". That's exactly the situation you described.

Player A brought a mech I felt was a "bad" build so my team and I decided, since he's in a "bad" build, we'll ruin his game experience and then say it's "ok" because it resulted in a win and that's teamwork right?

The majority of players in this community don't, thankfully, take that kind of attitude, and are just going to point out that it's scummy behavior when they see it.

If a teammate actively chooses to derp out alone or gets in a bad position, etc. that's completely different.

Running off and leaving a teammate after spawning just because you didn't like their build is different. It's bad form, it's against the spirit of the rules, it completely destroys another player's MWO experience for that match, and it's just a douchey thing to do overall.
Period

That's the part that is wrong. Not opinion, it's borderling violation of ToS if you make a habit of doing these like this simply because your teammate had a build you don't like. It's not me being "mad", "raging", or anything else, it's quite simply doing my best to discourage people from doing things like this because it's horrible, it hurts new player experience, it hurts the community overall, all in the name of "winning".