334 replies to this topic

[Gigashot]

Just theorizing, and a complete pipe dream here: but what if a bunch of mercenary megaUnits simply all agreed to go loyalist?

I mean just because PGI isn't fixing it, doesn't mean the players couldn't. What would keep the bloated merc population from just coming together and agreeing to go loyalists for various factions? No more 0/0 queues, no more avoiding fighting each other, no more all megaunits all going the same faction the same week, stabilize the turbulent faction populations.

Why couldn't we as a community organize and fix FW ourselves. If we did that, we could fix it without any help from PGI that may or may not ever come. Just get all the megaunit leaders in one room and lock the door till they worked out who would go where.

Edited by Gigashot, 19 May 2016 - 10:35 AM.

[BSK]

Gigashot, on 19 May 2016 - 10:35 AM, said:

Why couldn't we as a community organize and fix FW ourselves.

Because loyalists are role-playing while mercs are game-playing.

Together with GCGB we wanted to attack Clan Wolf on Ferris. But all loyalists that don't play FP kept voting for Elissa of Rasalhague because they don't want to fight clanners. Even the Wolfs wanted to fight us. Why did the GB now get through? Because 228 and MS cannot defend there anymore while they avoid each other now even in the same faction.

If all loyalists could delete their bias and vote for planets that would give everyone fun matches with glory and honour ..

[Gigashot]

BSK, on 19 May 2016 - 10:42 AM, said:

Because loyalists are role-playing while mercs are game-playing.

Together with GCGB we wanted to attack Clan Wolf on Ferris. But all loyalists that don't play FP kept voting for Elissa of Rasalhague because they don't want to fight clanners. Even the Wolfs wanted to fight us. Why did the GB now get through? Because 228 and MS cannot defend there anymore while they avoid each other now even in the same faction.

If all loyalists could delete their bias and vote for planets that would give everyone fun matches with glory and honour ..

This makes no sense. There are so few of us loyalists anyway, even less "roleplayers", you're trying to say that if a megaUnit that's probably the size of the entire CSJ went loyalist they wouldn't sway the vote? That's bull. This "mystery majority" of loyalist RP'ers doesn't exist. Mercenaries are not the minority. That's the whole problem.

Edited by Gigashot, 19 May 2016 - 10:47 AM.

[BSK]

You wanted to fix FP as a community and I gave you an answer to that. I don't consider going loyalist.

[CK16]

Because there is no point to attacking another Clan....to do what what through to Stiener? That won't happen wth how attack lanes are set up, we are finally making progress out from our zone let's keep pushing forward and grab FRR planets before we start making more enemies...

[DarklightCA]

Gigashot, on 19 May 2016 - 10:12 AM, said:

"All the megaunits went CJF because they're the only Clan holding their ground." isn't the whole point that you are supposed to go to factions that aren't able to hold their ground and be the thing that holds ground? If the megaunits fight each other, it trickles down so smaller Units can get into an actual match 2, 4, or 6, at a time. But instead, you avoid each other, play 12 vs. pugs. Queue's turn into 0/0 and you just ghost drop until enough pugs coalesce to get clubbed? Stay tuned next week for more of the same.

Stop me when I'm wrong here.

First of all, where does it say the point of the gamemode is for units to carry factions on their backs? People contract with factions that will support their efforts to conquer planets or whichever faction grants them the quickest games or most attack lanes. Contracting with a faction that already lost, who's population has already given up is not something most people want to contract with.

Second, just because you say units are avoiding each other don't make it so. For the longest time most units have had a even split between the factions and have skirmished with each other when they got matched up on a planet. One time a bunch of units contract with the same faction because there is no easy way of determining where a unit is contracting and all of a sudden it's a conspiracy.

As for seal clubbing. Tell me what happens when you take a majority unorganized solo playerbase, put them in a non-matchmaking environment where 12 man groups can roam? Oh that's right, the most likely team those groups will be facing will be the majority population which are the unorganized solo players. We have zero control who we get matched up in faction play.

[BSK]

DarklightCA, on 19 May 2016 - 10:53 AM, said:

We have zero control who we get matched up in faction play.

Again, everybody go to faction play and type "Talitha" into planet search. Of the 21 available attack phases during a one week contract, the 228 on Marik side was not able to get a match against MS on Davion side who defended that planet in 14 of the 21 attack phases.

[DarklightCA]

BSK, on 19 May 2016 - 10:58 AM, said:

Again, everybody go to faction play and type "Talitha" into planet search. Of the 21 available attack phases during a one week contract, the 228 on Marik side was not able to get a match against MS on Davion side who defended that planet in 14 of the 21 attack phases.

So you are telling me in the 24 hour cycle that is Faction Play, MS put up a defense of a Davion planet. The fact we weren't ghost dropping Davion planets 24/7 until we got to fight MS for you all means we never tried to fight them? You do realize how idiotic that sounds right.

As I said because I was there and you were not. We ghost dropped Davion for over a hour before we gave up for better lanes with actual matches. We did the same in our Kurita contract on CW3 release and we learned that if Davions aren't defending than they aren't going to defend.

[Gigashot]

DarklightCA, on 19 May 2016 - 10:53 AM, said:

First of all, where does it say the point of the gamemode is for units to carry factions on their backs?

When 80% of the player base are Mercenaries, then Mercenaries have FW hostage. With great power blah blah responsibility. It's settup in a way to encourage Mercenaries to fight for the littlest guy, but instead 8 megaunits go CJF because "we're not going to carry" and just want to smash pugs until everyone quits FW.

Quote

merc units...even split between the factions and have skirmished with each other...

If that were true, why is every match 12 megaUnit mercs vs. rag tag pugs, and also what every player says they also experience? Where are megaUnit mercs currently fighting each other 12 v 12? CJF: Civil War™?

Quote

We have zero control who we get matched up in faction play.

>>>>Again, everybody go to faction play and type "Talitha" into planet search. Of the 21 available attack phases during a one week contract, the 228 on Marik side was not able to get a match against MS on Davion side who defended that planet in 14 of the 21 attack phases. <<<

Edited by Gigashot, 19 May 2016 - 11:19 AM.

[DarklightCA]

Gigashot, on 19 May 2016 - 11:15 AM, said:

When 80% of the player base are Mercenaries, then Mercenaries have FW hostage. With great power blah blah responsibility. It's settup in a way to encourage Mercenaries to fight for the littlest guy, but instead 8 megaunits go CJF because "we're not going to carry" and just want to smash pugs until everyone quits FW.

80% of the player base are not Mercenaries lol. Even if they were what does that have to do with majority of population solo queuing and how does that make them hold FW as a hostage? Mercenaries are hired to perform tasks.

Unless those struggling Clan's are hiring. Those Mercenaries like EVERY OTHER PLAYER in the game are looking out for their best interest which is planet captures or shortest queue time. 5 units did not join CJF to stomp pugs, those units don't even need to be in the same faction to stomp pugs. Everything you are saying is complete non-sense.

Gigashot, on 19 May 2016 - 11:15 AM, said:

If that were true, why is every match 12 megaUnit mercs vs. rag tag pugs, and also what ever player says they also experience? Where are megaUnit mercs currently fighting each other 12 v 12? CJF: Civil War™?

Because as I said majority of the population are solo queue players. There are very little actual units that can form 12 man's that actively play Faction Play. When majority of the population solo queue in a no-matchmaking environment than majority of the teams those groups go up against are going to be solo queue teams.

This has nothing to do with those groups, they don't dictate who they get matched up against even though you clearly think they have some magic powers that allows them to do so.

Edited by DarklightCA, 19 May 2016 - 11:31 AM.

[BSK]

DarklightCA, on 19 May 2016 - 11:13 AM, said:

So you are telling me in the 24 hour cycle that is Faction Play, MS put up a defense of a Davion planet. The fact we weren't ghost dropping Davion planets 24/7 until we got to fight MS for you all means we never tried to fight them? You do realize how idiotic that sounds right.

Do you understand what it means when a unit puts its name 6 times in a row on a planet? You do know that only if a planet gets contested again there will be a chronicle? Otherwise that date and name stands there until the next map reset. This means 6 attack phases in a row a Davion planet got attacked by Marik and every single attack phase this unit dropped on that planet successfully more than any other unit. And an attack phase has 8 hours not 24, so 6 of them equal 48 hours or 2 consecutive days. Let me expand my calculation to hours; 24 hours in 7 days equals to 168 hours. 14 attack phases are equal to 112 hours. From 168 hours 112 hours could have provided you with a match against that unit but it just did not happen because you tried for 1 hour of the 168 and from then ignored every single call for arms. I would recommend you avoid that word idiotic for other people.

[DarklightCA]

BSK, on 19 May 2016 - 11:39 AM, said:

Do you understand what it means when a unit puts its name 6 times in a row on a planet? You do know that only if a planet gets contested again there will be a chronicle? Otherwise that date and name stands there until the next map reset. This means 6 attack phases in a row a Davion planet got attacked by Marik and every single attack phase this unit dropped on that planet successfully more than any other unit. And an attack phase has 8 hours not 24, so 6 of them equal 48 hours or 2 consecutive days. Let me expand my calculation to hours; 24 hours in 7 days equals to 168 hours. 14 attack phases are equal to 112 hours. From 168 hours 112 hours could have provided you with a match against that unit but it just did not happen because you tried for 1 hour of the 168 and from then ignored every single call for arms. I would recommend you avoid that word idiotic for other people.

You get your unit name on the planet info when you contributed the most to the attack or defense of a planet per attack phase. The fact MS defended that planet enough to get their tag on it does not matter. They defended the planet and that's great for them but they could have defended that planet at any point during a 24 hour period between 3 different attack phases.

Your statement was that 228 avoids fights with MS and you are using that planet information to validate that statement. The fact 228 does not have their tag on that Davion planet information just means we did not ghost drop enough to contribute enough to be added on it which I already stated was fact but that doesn't mean we never tried to attack to bait a defense from MS or any other Davion unit at that time. As I said we ghost dropped on it for more than a hour before we gave up for better lanes.

[dervishx5]

DarklightCA, on 19 May 2016 - 04:05 AM, said:

You are joking right? Davion wasn't defending their worlds, likely because they were being attacked/attacking other factions. We like MANY other units/players went where we were more likely to get actual drops. What would you have us do, ghost drop game after game and hope MS comes out to play? Because we did that in Kurita and it never did **** for us.

Please stop stating things about units that you know nothing about. 228 would love nothing more than to fight MS but we can't magicly make drops happen or make them fight us.

Its unlikely its a 228 created problem. 228 has many competitive units and people wanting games no matter who the opponent is. And Deadfire is always out there talking to other units. They could have gone to another clan instead but 228 has that Jade fever.

It's becoming pretty obvious that MS has compromised itself by taking in any player they can so they can boost their numbers and swarm planets. They have not been a threat on the battlefield for a long time for skilled teams. And when we start dropping against them those MS teams switch to other planets after they lose. MS is used to easy kills.

They also didn't think things through going to CJF. Yeah steiner is being a bit of a baby not fighting them, but honestly I can't blame them too much considering they feel like they're being bandwagoned to death. This is an MS created problem and only MS can fix it.

HOWEVER, I do want to give MS credit in that they are generally good sports these days and a lot of their players are friendly people in general. You don't get to be that big by being a bunch of CSJx-style sociopaths.

Edited by dervishx5, 19 May 2016 - 11:56 AM.

[Prof RJ Gumby]

Maybe in a year or two guys like MS will finally realise that if you go for the easy mode faction, the rewards are most probably already claimed. Even wining plantes is not easy there, as you got a lot of competent contesters that want to do it too. There is NO REASON to go JF in a big faction like that other than to look for easy stomps.

FFS, with the numbers of competent players and followers MS could have went smoke jaguar and surely win some planets back for them, if not by skill then by sheer numbers, while not having to contest with 228, Kcom, etc. for number of wins. Please don't repeat that argument about those factions not having enough good players, small units might need take that into account, big ones don't.

EDIT: Finally, please use reading comprehension when taking contracts.11% of the FP playerbase vs 10% of FP playerbase is not 1% of difference. It's 10% of difference BEFORE your BIG AND NUMERUOUS unit joins up.

I don't mean any offense to individual MS players, as many of them are quite friendly and not at fault by any means, but the way MS chooses factions, allies and opposition is an issue regualry detrimenting their own and everybody elses' CW experience for at least a year now.

Edited by Prof RJ Gumby, 19 May 2016 - 12:11 PM.

[Count Zero 74]

Somehow I have the strange feeling that the whole population issue is only a thing in the US attack phase.

Here's a picture of queues 1 hour before EU ceasefire:



Numbers are equal even on the Jade Falcon Planet, no ghost drops, everyone gets quick matches.

Seems to me all the Yanks voted for Jade Falcons and everyone thats following the US primaries knows what happens if you let Yanks vote.

Edited by Count Zero 74, 19 May 2016 - 12:01 PM.

[Gigashot]

Count Zero 74, on 19 May 2016 - 12:00 PM, said:

Somehow I have the strange feeling that the whole population issue is only a thing in the US attack phase.

Here's a picture of queues 1 hour before EU ceasefire:



Numbers are equal even on the Jade Falcon Planet, no ghost drops, everyone gets quick matches.

Seems to me all the Yanks voted for Jade Falcons and everyone thats following the US primaries knows what happens if you let Yanks vote.

Damn EU. While I would still kill for a queue like this, that's still like what...148/130. For an online game queue this is still insaaanellly lowwww. Still need to get more QP -> FW and more Mercs -> Loyalists.

[Gas Guzzler]

Count Zero 74, on 19 May 2016 - 12:00 PM, said:

Seems to me all the Yanks voted for Jade Falcons and everyone thats following the US primaries knows what happens if you let Yanks vote.

In our defense, all the options were bad.

[dervishx5]

North America timezone is the only timezone that matters. The other two timezones are like alternate hypothetical realities. :3

[Count Zero 74]

Gigashot, on 19 May 2016 - 12:06 PM, said:

Damn EU. While I would still kill for a queue like this, that's still like what...148/130. For an online game queue this is still insaaanellly lowwww. Still need to get more QP -> FW and more Mercs -> Loyalists.

140/130 on planets that I could drop on, 5 more contested Planets with some matches running that I couldn'

Probably more like 200/200 and that with a quick play event running at the same time.
Numbers are fine and pretty well balanced over here.

Edited by Count Zero 74, 19 May 2016 - 12:29 PM.

[Jman5]

Gigashot, on 19 May 2016 - 11:15 AM, said:

When 80% of the player base are Mercenaries, then Mercenaries have FW hostage. With great power blah blah responsibility. It's settup in a way to encourage Mercenaries to fight for the littlest guy, but instead 8 megaunits go CJF because "we're not going to carry" and just want to smash pugs until everyone quits FW.

The problem is that the system they set up to funnel players to smaller factions isn't working right. The population numbers all claim to be pretty similar and so the bonuses aren't that different. So you can't really use that as a guide.

Also the idea of a small mercenary unit joining a small faction fails in practice. Too often what ends up happenings is you drop with 1-4 guys in the attack queue and then just sit there. It's often incredibly hard if not impossible to fill an attack queue unless you're dropping with a lot of players. And the teams that are best suited to do that are the big units.

So for the many merc units that don't regularly field 12 mans they have 2 choices. Stick to the handful of factions with a consistently solid population, or follow one of the big merc groups that can jump start any faction they go to.

It's easy to blame the players, but having spent a lot of time playing in underpopulated factions, it's understandable why faction selection choice is what it is.