188 replies to this topic

[Naaaaak]

Zuesacoatl, on 28 April 2017 - 12:08 AM, said:

You are not getting screwed. They are giving you a currenency that fulfills the premise of when you spent those cbills … some long burger comparison

Your comparison is all kinds of screwed up. I don't get to keep what I bought; they are forcibly taking it away from me.

I paid C-Bills for modules, not GSP tokens. Fairest, easiest thing to do is to return the C-Bills since they are stealing away my modules.

Outcast1six, on 28 April 2017 - 01:07 AM, said:

It would be nice if everyone remembered that we're in public TEST and things are bound to change before it hits the live servers.

In practice, things are not bound to change much. We have years of examples.

Outcast1six, on 28 April 2017 - 01:07 AM, said:

Am I going to enjoy the skill tree mini game on 290 mechs. Definitely not.

The skill maze tedium doesn't have to be this way. Almost every other game with a skill tree does it better, because they use an actual tree or a straight-foward list.

Edited by Naaaaak, 28 April 2017 - 01:38 AM.

[AngrySpartan]

Outcast1six, on 28 April 2017 - 01:07 AM, said:

It would be nice if everyone remembered that we're in public TEST and things are bound to change before it hits the live servers.

Except refunds, nothing has changed since the last PTS (which ended in the huge outcry to stop this mess from going live). Why players keep assuming there will be drastic changes in the future? PGI is not known for flexibility and on time tweaks, and yet people still have faith in the skill tree...

[Meihru]

Playing since day 1 of closed beta, spent 3000$+ so far and will DEFINETLY leave mwo and will refund any not yet released preorders

Edited by Meihru, 28 April 2017 - 01:23 AM.

[Outcast1six]

Zuesacoatl, on 28 April 2017 - 12:08 AM, said:

I have been here since 2011, I am a founder, and have spent well over $2250 on the game, and will spend as family and bills allow.

The tree is not perfect, but it is better than anything we have had, and I have been waiting for a change like this that offers more flexible choices and allows me to build my way, sure I may have to take some nodes I do not want, but I understand the reasoning behind the give and take. I think that most people in my generation do, the youngins from this generation want it their way, and they want it now.

I will not leave the game, but I do not play as often since the first time they cancelled the skill tree, and if they cancel it again, I will play even less.


So the thread is not going your way, so you resort to insults at the end of your post...Bravo, you are a shining example of the current what do I get generation.


they listened to player feedback. There was quite a few of us who like the skill tree for the most part, so they listened. Just because they do not listen directly to you does not mean they do not listen to player feedback. Another example of the current generations thought process of what do I get out of it.


You are not getting screwed. They are giving you a currenency that fulfills the premise of when you spent those cbills. When you bought the modules pre 2017, you did so with the thought process of increasing range, finding hidden mechs, or derping the radar. They are giving you currency to support the spirit of those purchases.

Asking for a full c-bill refund is like going to a burger joint, buying a burger, eating it, and then coming back years later when they have changed their menu a bit and have offered you a free burger even though you spent that money years ago, you want compensation because you ate the burger, but now that burgers are free on the menu, you want your money back to buy fries and a coke....

This ************ is my hero.

[Outcast1six]

Naaaaak, on 28 April 2017 - 01:11 AM, said:

Your comparison is all kinds of screwed up. I don't get to keep what I bought; they are forcibly taking it away from me.

I paid C-Bills for it, not GSP tokens. Fairest, easiest thing to do is to return the C-Bills since they are stealing away my modules.

I paid cash for a lot of my modules. Where's my check?

AngrySpartan, on 28 April 2017 - 01:17 AM, said:

Except refunds, nothing has changed since the last PTS (which ended in the huge outcry to stop this mess from going live). Why players keep assuming there will be drastic changes in the future? PGI is not known for flexibility and on time tweaks, and yet people still have faith in the skill tree...

And the absolute travesty that was ED is gone because of people's feedback.

PGI made their case in the post for this PTS. I happen to agree with some of it. Would I like to see it reorganized. Yup. Would I like to see some of solhama's (sic) ideas incorporated, absolutely. Would I like to get some of my 844 million c-bills back. Yes. Is the world perfectly what I want. Nope.

[AngrySpartan]

Outcast1six, on 28 April 2017 - 01:35 AM, said:

And the absolute travesty that was ED is gone because of people's feedback.

PGI made their case in the post for this PTS. I happen to agree with some of it. Would I like to see it reorganized. Yup. Would I like to see some of solhama's (sic) ideas incorporated, absolutely. Would I like to get some of my 844 million c-bills back. Yes. Is the world perfectly what I want. Nope.

Let's not forget who made ED such a travesty. It was a brilliant concept with a single flaw: PGI execution. but enough about the past.

Most of us tend to agree with PGIs goals stated in the post for this PTS. At least two of us (and I imagine lots of other players) agree that skill tree should be reorganized. However it that thing goes live right now, the most likely outcome will be the following: we'll get stuck with that hexagon madness for years!

[Danjo San]

since 1132 days ... 3 years.
I will continue to buy and play as long as I am interested ... however I'm getting too many GSP for the future https://mwomercs.com...ith-gsp-refund/

[Outcast1six]

AngrySpartan, on 28 April 2017 - 01:46 AM, said:

Let's not forget who made ED such a travesty. It was a brilliant concept with a single flaw: PGI execution. but enough about the past.

Most of us tend to agree with PGIs goals stated in the post for this PTS. At least two of us (and I imagine lots of other players) agree that skill tree should be reorganized. However it that thing goes live right now, the most likely outcome will be the following: we'll get stuck with that hexagon madness for years!

Call me a lorehead, but ED wasn't brilliant. It sucked from concept. Pinpoint alphas could have been fixed with convergence and a true heat scale. That's just my opinion. But serious nonlore ED should never live.

I absolutely 100% agree that the tree needs better organization and maybe consolidation and reduction in size and corresponding points. As such a major change, and one the effects balance, it needs to be a good as it can be.

Edited by Outcast1six, 28 April 2017 - 02:03 AM.

[Chados]

Ruar, on 27 April 2017 - 04:29 PM, said:

6kph... the amount from speed tweak?

Yes, I think that's accurate. It's impossible really to get those nodes in the mobility tree without major sacrifices. That's clearly by design, and I prioritize protection over raw speed as you can help speed with bigger engines. For example, in my A1 Cat the missile rack buff allows me to drop a half ton of ammo for an engine next size up. The net speed loss is 1.5kph, and I don't lose too much agility since basic Catapult agaility now is pretty close to what they were quirked.

I just think buffs ought to scale up harder as you make larger investments. I'm not seeing the value of the 1/3 sacrifice in one tree to get results that don't really mean much. I'm mostly ticked about the armor and heat bonuses. Big investments in the protection tree get you four or five armor points. That's pretty chintzy too. The structure increases look fairly decent, though. See, this can all be fixed by buffing the increase levels per node. Easy fix.

[oldradagast]

Outcast1six, on 28 April 2017 - 01:07 AM, said:

It would be nice if everyone remembered that we're in public TEST and things are bound to change before it hits the live servers.

Am I going to enjoy the skill tree mini game on 290 mechs. Definitely not.

PGI has not changed the basic concepts of the skill maze so far in each iteration of test. The tangled, illogical idiocy we see is what is going live - they've made it clear that this lunacy IS their vision for a skill system; this also makes it clear that they are grossly unqualified to design video games. The skill maze is an objective failure of video game design AND it is not what the customers want, but they are going to do it anyway.

PGI also has a horrible track record of fixing balance problems they've created, so the mess generated by the skill maze will be the mess we all get to enjoy for months or years.

Stock up on top-tier meta mechs that don't need quirks, because nothing else will be playable in a month or so.

Edited by oldradagast, 28 April 2017 - 03:27 AM.

[HGAK47]

I first picked up this game in 2012. I will admit im not the most regular player out there but I have enjoyed playing MWO for many years now.

I still have love for the game and the concept, the game will still offer lots of fun.

That being said the headache of going through the skill trees, getting used to everything again might put me off. At least for a while. The skill tree however does offer a lot of opportunity so I dont want to give up on it. Im on the fence over it I would say with things I like and dislike.

I was hoping for fun customisation, where I could really make my mech "MY mech" but I feel this skill tree is a lot of work for not a lot of fun.

[burning wisky]

23.3.2013 online
Go .... NO
Like the skilltree .... NO all, but almost

[AngrySpartan]

HGAK47, on 28 April 2017 - 03:32 AM, said:

The skill tree however does offer a lot of opportunity so I dont want to give up on it. Im on the fence over it I would say with things I like and dislike.

I was hoping for fun customisation, where I could really make my mech "MY mech" but I feel this skill tree is a lot of work for not a lot of fun.

On paper any idea with decent goals promises a lot, that's the execution that makes the difference. And with current execution there are many reasons NOT to proceed with PGI's skill tree design and hardly any reasons to do so (Yes, there are some replies here in favor of this new skill tree, but they lack any convincing arguments except 'I want it to change cause I want something to change. )

[Aria Wolfe]

Good question.

I'm a Founder, playing just over 5 years.

Bought a lot of packs. 166 mechs, 2/3rds fully mastered. Happy now the Gold Khan mechs were taken off the store before I bought the Warhawk. Player supporter, not Pay to Win. Silly whiny snowflakes.....

Returned to EVE Online after 1-1/2 yr break after the first PTS for the skill maze.

Quitting MWO? No.
Playing EVE much more? Yes! (5+ nights a week, leaving 1 or 2 for mwo.)
Going to check out M.A.V.? Yes.
Going to click anything in the skill maze? No. I'm just stubborn and have nerve damage from work injury.
Going to spend another dollar on this game? Not likely.

(note: above answers based on this skill maze going live, subject to change if scrapped or revamped)

Did we need a new skill tree? I didn't think so, but some do.

Is the proposed new skill system good? NO! Many players have done PGI's job for them and come up with some incredible ideas, for FREE! that are ignored. They should consider jobs in gaming!

Would one of the players suggestions be better? YES!

Anyone else experiencing the lag, 'rubber banding' and disconnects? Oh, I do have 150 down 20 up speed and a killer gaming laptop using gigabit ethernet (not chump wifi), have no issues with other internet or games, so it's the mwo servers. FIX IT!

No, I'm not mad, disappointed that despite PTS and all the overwhelming negative response, and the suggestions with much support on how to make it actually a good system, PGI, at this point, still seems to want to cram a crappy system into play.

One suggestion was make the incremental levels more expensive (in a linear method). Just like unlocking the Pilot skill tree to unlock modules. Level 1 is 500XP, level 2 is 600XP and so on until level 5 max.

The refund is better, but the SP for modules is a terrible idea. C-bills for c-bills. Although it would allow me to master ALL my mechs so either way it goes works for me..

I am concerned how the new tree will effect new players, provided PGI advertises and attracts new players.

I am optimistic PGI can resolve this and waiting to see. Sad they caved by nerfing the unreleased clan heores, but now I can get them for c-bills, no need to spend over $100! Which means less into the coffers, less development of maps/modes/server upgrades.... Again, Player Supporter, not Pay to Win......

[MrMagoo421]

I've been playing about 2.5 years off and on. I will certainly still be playing after it goes live. Actually, I took a break and stopped playing when the previous launch got aborted with a same day hand out for Civil War pre-order cash....that left a bad taste.

I don't think the new system is perfect, and know it will need tweeking over time, but I am happy to see it come out and kill the dreaded rule of 3. There's enough going on with it that I can find things to experiment with around different builds, finally making skills seem like something you work on instead of just being a first day in a mech grind.

I will continue to spend money, as long as they change the pack model away from the multiple copies of one mech packs into things more like the resistance packs. I'm sure FP will become far more accessible to casual players under such a model then it is now where they have to grind out a dozen mechs to have a 4 mech drop deck. It even gives that option of selling pre-made drop decks.

[Ruar]

Chados, on 28 April 2017 - 02:08 AM, said:

Yes, I think that's accurate. It's impossible really to get those nodes in the mobility tree without major sacrifices. That's clearly by design, and I prioritize protection over raw speed as you can help speed with bigger engines. For example, in my A1 Cat the missile rack buff allows me to drop a half ton of ammo for an engine next size up. The net speed loss is 1.5kph, and I don't lose too much agility since basic Catapult agaility now is pretty close to what they were quirked.

I just think buffs ought to scale up harder as you make larger investments. I'm not seeing the value of the 1/3 sacrifice in one tree to get results that don't really mean much. I'm mostly ticked about the armor and heat bonuses. Big investments in the protection tree get you four or five armor points. That's pretty chintzy too. The structure increases look fairly decent, though. See, this can all be fixed by buffing the increase levels per node. Easy fix.

I think we are looking at the skill tree as a way to upgrade our mechs when it's closer to a way to add a bit of flair to the mech. It's just some quirks we can pick that add a little bit but don't dramatically change how the mech is played.

A brawling mech isn't going to get much out of boosting range in hopes of participating in the mid range battle. It can get a little bit longer life span through the survival tree. A sniping mech isn't going to get enough from the survival tree to make it able to brawl effectively.

Your Catapult issues are a good example. The tree can increase your offensive power a little. Or your speed a little. Or your defense a little. But none of those changes is enough to change the nature of how that Catapult performs and allow it to fill a new role. The changes aren't enough to make that Catapult perform above and beyond the normal role. They are enough to let you get a bit more damage down range, or take a volley that would normally kill you, or shift position a bit faster. All of which will improve your mech, but not to significant amount.

Increasing the node strength sounds good but then it will provide too much of a buff. Newer people will be at a big disadvantage while they skill through the tree. Non-meta builds will be at a disadvantage because they can't maximize the skill tree. All in all it will just create an all new set of balance problems.

It's probably better to just have relatively weak nodes that can be changed later once things settle down rather than start with strong nodes that have to be nerfed quickly.

[Jagd Wolf]

I will continue to play this game!

I appreciate when a game company works on improving a game. Change can be unsettling but it can also introduce new opportunities. Once people have given the new skill tree a chance, then it leaves room for future feedback and improvement.

As a cautionary note, feedback is important but listening to too much of it can be unproductive for everyone.

Bravely face the change.

[oldradagast]

Jagd Wolf, on 28 April 2017 - 08:26 AM, said:

I will continue to play this game!

I appreciate when a game company works on improving a game.

With all due respect, that's not PGI you're describing there... this is not an "improvement." Objectively, the skill maze is a failure. It fails to achieve its own stated goals regarding increasing roles and mech diversity on the field, it fails basic video game design logic and expectations, it fails to keep the community happy and interested in the game, and it fails even basic sanity tests. Anyone taking a detailed look at it will just shake their head in wonder at the idiocy of it.

I also appreciate companies that work on improving their games. That's why I'll be spending future money on products produced by companies OTHER than PGI.

Edited by oldradagast, 28 April 2017 - 12:35 PM.

[Alexander of Macedon]

Played since 2015. ~$100-120 spent on the game. If the quirk nerfs and current skill tree drop, I'm done, full stop.

[Humpday]

3 Months, ~$154 on mc Anni and Uzil.

No leaving...my mentality is that Its a new challenge. They even broke my dang HBK-4SP(i think), but we'll see, I can't say for sure till I drive it in real time in a match.

Edit: I MAY pull back on spending actual money if they continue to mess with mechs stats though. Part of the purchasing decisions are made based on a mechs baseline stats. If they willy nilly keep messing with those and gimp a mech a purchased with cash...Yeah, that'll deter me from spending real money on mech packs at least.

I say that now though, but I'm impatient...that cbill grind sucks even with heros. I'll probably get bored and just buy stuff again

Edited by Humpday, 28 April 2017 - 01:32 PM.