115 replies to this topic

[Kylere]

Back in 2001-2002 Adobe stopped running better on Macs than on PC's.

In all practical reality Apple has not been better since, and given the price difference would have to be significantly better to be regarded as having value. I think Macs are great devices, I think that for younger children, seniors, MBA's, Doctors (Medical), and lawyers they are far better than PC's but that is due to their simplicity, not their overall value.

PC is beer, Macs are wine. Neither gets you drunker but one is far more expensive,

[Shumabot]

Caviel, on 21 February 2013 - 03:43 PM, said:

Long story VERY short, FASA Interactive (The electronic games part of FASA, also did Virtual World stuff) ended up being purchased by Microsoft, although FASA still went under. The print version of BattleTech (Now Classic Battletech) was sold to Wizards of the Coast (Which was bought by WizKids Games, then eaten by Topps) by FASA so all the print stuff is owned by Topps and is licensed by Catalyst for the print material.

The electronic game side was retained by Microsoft, who sold the rights (Not the ownership) for it to Smith & Tinker (Now bankrupt, btw), who sold it in turn to PGI. Microsoft still owns MechWarrior, PGI just has the rights to make MW:O with the IP. Because Microsoft owns the MechWarrior IP, you will never see a native MW:O for OSX or Linux. Ever.

The same restriction is what killed the original single player reboot we saw years ago because Microsoft said "No PS3". See the story straight from Bryan here:

http://mwomercs.com/...10/2-dev-blog-0

I guess that explains why microsoft puts its own first party programs like outlook, word, and exchange onto macs and iOS devices. That also explains why smart glass, the mobile initiative meant to propel xbox into the mobile space is on iOS at launch.

Edited by Shumabot, 21 February 2013 - 04:08 PM.

[Kelito]

scruffy416, on 15 February 2013 - 01:39 PM, said:

OS aside, does any of the current gen Apple hardware have the hardware performance to play the game well? If so, I'm going to have to start bugging some buddies to install BootCamp and give it a try.

I figured the hardware wouldn't be close to up to it... but if Borderlands 2 is "playable" ...

Anyone out there playing exclusively on a Mac?

p.s. my definition of playable == at least 40fps in heated battles in Medium quality or better

The answer to this is, well, I get close to 40fps, somewhere between 30 and 40fps most of the time. The truth is that none of the video cards that macs have, well at least the highend macbook pro 17" with AMD HD 6700M 2GB that I have, support full gaming at the highest settings. Mine runs great bootcamp win 7 with MWO. But not 40fps sustained.

This argument is as old as the PC computer market. The PC is best for gaming and business and the MAC is best for graphics, movie ripping, and music. I use both PC at work and MAC at home with bootcamp. I don't really notice a difference in performance with either for what they are for.

Fan boys of both platforms are silly! Try looking at both platforms objectively and you will see that each has its place. But, macs can run OSX, Windows, Linux, Unix...etc... where a pc can't, without being illegal, run OSX.

All that being said, I am buying an Alienware 18" laptop so that I can get the best graphics performance at the highest settings for MWO specifically, and it is a windows running monster! But it is just for gaming...

EDIT: Oh and it costs 3 times as much as my 2012 Macbook Pro btw! So the argument that macs cost more than windows machines is just silly!

Edited by Kelito, 21 February 2013 - 04:12 PM.

[Caviel]

Shumabot, on 21 February 2013 - 04:00 PM, said:

Oh wait. No, you're just being a whiny fanboy who doesn't know anything about any of this. MWO forums at their best.

Even if Microsoft were to allow it, CryEngine3 doesn't support OSX anyways.

Go take your vitriol elsewhere, please. Come back when you have something positive to contribute.

[Sug]

Kelito, on 21 February 2013 - 04:08 PM, said:

All that being said, I am buying an Alienware 18" laptop so that I can get the best graphics performance at the highest settings for MWO specifically, and it is a windows running monster! But it is just for gaming...

EDIT: Oh and it costs 3 times as much as my 2012 Macbook Pro btw! So the argument that macs cost more than windows machines is just silly!

Damn it. Facepalmed so hard I broke my damn nose and now I have to go to the hospital. wtf dude.

[WVAnonymous]

M4NTiC0R3X, on 21 February 2013 - 03:18 PM, said:

No plans to support Mac OS. Doesn't matter why that's what they said, besides that I've always seen Mac as a personal computer, for things like.. iono.. not gaming though. What possesed you to purchase one?

Professional reasons.

[WVAnonymous]

Caviel, on 21 February 2013 - 04:13 PM, said:

Even if Microsoft were to allow it, CryEngine3 doesn't support OSX anyways.

Doesn't support OS X yet.

[Sug]

WVAnonymous, on 21 February 2013 - 04:52 PM, said:

Doesn't support OS X yet.

make that 'yet' a link to an article about how cry3 will support OSX and you might have something.

[WVAnonymous]

Sug, on 21 February 2013 - 04:59 PM, said:

make that 'yet' a link to an article about how cry3 will support OSX and you might have something.

I have no knowledge. I have hope.

[borisof007]

Caviel, on 21 February 2013 - 04:13 PM, said:

Even if Microsoft were to allow it, CryEngine3 doesn't support OSX anyways.

Go take your vitriol elsewhere, please. Come back when you have something positive to contribute.

I think this argument is more correct than Microsoft just not allowing it. The effort to try and make something Mac and Windows compatible is taxing.

BUT, I will concede that perhaps Microsoft had some say in the licensing agreement. Who knows, they are a finicky bunch.

[scruffy416]

Kelito, on 21 February 2013 - 04:08 PM, said:

The answer to this is, well, I get close to 40fps, somewhere between 30 and 40fps most of the time. The truth is that none of the video cards that macs have, well at least the highend macbook pro 17" with AMD HD 6700M 2GB that I have, support full gaming at the highest settings. Mine runs great bootcamp win 7 with MWO. But not 40fps sustained.

Cool, thanks for the info. Now I just have to try to convince my friend to install BootCamp... gonna be tough, he hates Windows with a passion. As long as the game is mostly playable and not dipping down to 10-15fps a lot, I think that's reasonable.

Kelito, on 21 February 2013 - 04:08 PM, said:

All that being said, I am buying an Alienware 18" laptop so that I can get the best graphics performance at the highest settings for MWO specifically, and it is a windows running monster! But it is just for gaming...

Is portability an absolute requirement? If not, you'll get a whole lot more bang for way less buck putting together a nice desktop. GFX options for dekstops make laptop video cards a total loser in terms of performance vs price.

[Strum Wealh]

Caviel, on 21 February 2013 - 04:13 PM, said:

Even if Microsoft were to allow it, CryEngine3 doesn't support OSX anyways.

borisof007, on 22 February 2013 - 08:37 AM, said:

I think this argument is more correct than Microsoft just not allowing it. The effort to try and make something Mac and Windows compatible is taxing.

BUT, I will concede that perhaps Microsoft had some say in the licensing agreement. Who knows, they are a finicky bunch.

Also, it should be noted that being heavily dependent on DirectX is another strike against the notion of MWO natively running on Macs.
From Paul Inouye, Lead Designer for MechWarrior Online:

Quote

We stated Day 1 that this was a PC exclusive title and that we had no intentions of moving it to other platforms.

CryENGINE 3 relies heavily on DirectX which does not run on a Mac. Yes, there's the dual boot option but we will not be supporting MWO running on a Windows partition on a Mac. If you choose to run the game like that, it's completely up to you but we will not be actively supporting those who do.

Posted here on June 21, 2012

Moreover: PGI's specific sub-license to the MechWarrior franchise does not extend to non-Microsoft platforms (a restriction put in place by Microsoft, who is still the ultimate license holder for the MechWarrior video games); listen to Byran Ekman (PGI Creative Director and Co-Founder) explain the rights situation in the "No Guts, No Galaxy" podcast #44 (starting at the 25:24 mark).

However, a later statement in the same podcast (starting at the 26:07) indicates that, in contrast to PGI, Personae Studios (producing MechWarrior Tactical Command) does have rights to produce MW products for Apple platforms but does not have rights to produce MW products for Microsoft platforms.

More specifically:

• Piranha Games (the company making MechWarrior Online) currently has the rights, by virtue of their license to the franchise to make MechWarrior games for Microsoft platforms (PC, XBox, etc), but their license covers only those platforms.
  
• Personae Studios (the company making MechWarrior Tactical Command) currently has the rights, by virtue of their license to the franchise (which is separate from that of Piranha Games) to make MechWarrior games for certain other platforms (including Apple products), but not those platforms covered by Piranha Games' license.

The entity that ultimately decides what MechWarrior video game licenses are granted to whom, and on what terms, is still Microsoft.

(In a broader sense, the rights to the rest of the BattleTech universe (printed media, TT-related products, etc) belong to some combination of The Topps Company, Smith & Tinker, and Catalyst Game Labs.)

As the licenses are ultimately legal agreements, that means that Piranha (one company) and Personae (another company) are legally bound to observe and adhere to the terms of their respective (and separate) licenses.

So, in addition to the technical issue (the dependency on DirectX by the version of CryEngine that is being used), it seems that there are also legal issues that (even if the DirectX/CryEngine issue were resolved?) would likely prevent MWO from ever being released natively for Apple (or, more broadly, "non-Microsoft") platforms.

('Twould perhaps be better to listen to the podcast itself (the link is included in this very post) and hear Mr. Ekman explain it in his own words...?)

[Roland]

Macs are not useful for playing games.

[Henchman 24]

You could try grabbing a second hard drive and installing Windows on it for games, dual boot if it's a desktop Mac. Macs are just cherry picked PCs now and this should work, EFI and UEFI nonsense aside.

If you're on a MacBook though....just give up now, not only do you have the hardware/os thing to get past, but the lack of decent video hardware in those will smack you upside the head once you launch the game.

Sorry the options suck, but you bought from the Fischer Price™ of the tech world.

[verybad]

Kylere, on 21 February 2013 - 03:59 PM, said:

Back in 2001-2002 Adobe stopped running better on Macs than on PC's.

In all practical reality Apple has not been better since, and given the price difference would have to be significantly better to be regarded as having value. I think Macs are great devices, I think that for younger children, seniors, MBA's, Doctors (Medical), and lawyers they are far better than PC's but that is due to their simplicity, not their overall value.

PC is beer, Macs are wine. Neither gets you drunker but one is far more expensive,

This. ^

MACs are fine for what they are, but they don't allow you the flexibility a PC has in terms of customizing it, especially for high end game use. Macs have an walled garden system for their use. Apple wants to control everything, and while this leads to a stable system (though it's doubtful it's more stable than Windows 7, I've been running that since it came out, and it hasn't crashed once.)

I do some freelance design work on the side from my regular job, and a good PC is certainly not behind Macs any longer on Adobe software (where 99% of design happens). I'd pretty much bet that a high end PC that's customized for design will wipe the floor with a Mac in fact.

Macs are great for people that don't want to or don't know how to make their own computers, and are willing to pay the price for a nice looking, stable system.

I detest the walled garden philosphy for the entire Apple range of products however.

[Bobby Bolivia]

scruffy416, on 15 February 2013 - 01:39 PM, said:

OS aside, does any of the current gen Apple hardware have the hardware performance to play the game well? If so, I'm going to have to start bugging some buddies to install BootCamp and give it a try.

I figured the hardware wouldn't be close to up to it... but if Borderlands 2 is "playable" ...

Anyone out there playing exclusively on a Mac?

p.s. my definition of playable == at least 40fps in heated battles in Medium quality or better

I use a 27" iMac as my main computer, and I bootcamp into Windows 8 for MWO. It's an i7 3.4ghz with a Radeon 6970m videocard, so it runs the game flawlessly and without any compromises.

[Spinning Burr]

Sug, on 21 February 2013 - 04:59 PM, said:

make that 'yet' a link to an article about how cry3 will support OSX and you might have something.

I posted a link on another forum topic about Cry Engine and OpenGL. So there is your something. Thank you.

http://mwomercs.com/...ure-via-opengl/

Edited by Spinning Burr, 22 February 2013 - 10:45 AM.

[Spinning Burr]

BTW can anybody explain to me in layman's terms how WINE is actually different from an emulator? It converts code from Windows language to Unix language within the Unix based environment according to their website, but they are adamant that WINE Is Not an Emulator. It sounds like an emulator trying hard to market and brand itself as not an emulator. Please educate me.

[Siliconwolf]

MacWarriors eh? We don't need their kind here!

[Felicitatem Parco]

The licensing deals involved in making this game will not allow this game to be made for a Mac. Sorry.

Moving thread to Jettisoned Communications, since there's nothing more really to discuss that pertains to the OP, other than software emulators and other stuff that's non-MW:O specific discussion material.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 22 February 2013 - 11:53 AM.