776 replies to this topic

[Cementi]

Mystere, on 17 June 2016 - 05:50 PM, said:

Spoken like someone who does not use lights.

I also agree and I play lights and mediums. I thought the Cicada and 55 tonners would shrink and the Cicada didnt and the 55 tonners barely changed. So ya I feel its better. the 35 tonners should not dominate the Light tier......this may be what was needed so that they dont.

[The Flying Gecko]

I'd summarize it as:

"Hahahahaha! Idiots..."

[Steve Pryde]

Mystere, on 17 June 2016 - 05:50 PM, said:

Spoken like someone who does not use lights.

I have plenty of light mechs and I'm with him. And now?

[Cementi]

Oh and tiny Locust SQUEEEEEE!!!!

[Malleus011]

This had to be done. It should've been this way from the start, but they didn't have a standard to apply yet, and mistakes were made.

Now we at least have a system applied to all the 'mechs. You can argue if it is the right system, but you can't argue that there needed to be some system. I maintain it is better to have some system - even if it isn't optimal - than arbitrary sizes based on feel.

Once this patch drops, we can start playing the 'mechs again, and if they still suck (Archer, Victor, etc) then PGI should be able to see it and quirk it to compensate.

IMHO, the quirks should probably be wiped and redone, but I imagine the rescale was all they could handle, so we'll have to wait for granular re-quirking now that the models are adjusted.

Regardless, though, this had to be done, in some way or form, and though it might suck for some chassis in the short run, in the long run, it's absolutely necessary if we ever want to see real improvements in game balance.

[Andi Nagasia]

Cementi, on 17 June 2016 - 05:54 PM, said:

I also agree and I play lights and mediums. I thought the Cicada and 55 tonners would shrink and the Cicada didnt and the 55 tonners barely changed. So ya I feel its better. the 35 tonners should not dominate the Light tier......this may be what was needed so that they dont.

people have to remember this wasnt a Change that to Balance the Classes,
this was a Scaling Change to Correct the Scaling of All Mechs,

i think though we all wish all things got smaller, it will be better for the game,
as all mechs are now the Correct Size, and Scaled Properly,

[Pariah Devalis]

I (mostly) approve of the rescales. Gonna hurt the 35 tonners the most, but... That could be a good thing. 30 ton platforms, let alone 25 ton platforms, will be a lot smaller than their heavier brethren, and as a result harder targets to hit. It increases the benefit of taking a non-35.

[Felbombling]

We all knew some changes were coming to many different Mechs, but I cannot help but think that the Panther and Wolfhound were using a template set for 45 tons or something... they BALOONED in size.

[Kanil]

Brandarr Gunnarson, on 17 June 2016 - 05:36 PM, said:

Gameplay might be altered, but that doesn't mean it won't be overall more balanced.

Overall, I think the changes are "correct", but particular 'Mechs might suffer and benefit. I'm sure the so called "meta" will change.

in the short term? No, absolutely not. So many 'mechs that didn't deserve to be nerfed just got nerfed.

Long term, I dunno. There's still going to be good 'mechs and bad 'mechs, so I'm not sure it makes a big difference.

That said, the 'mechs look a lot better when they're appropriately sized, so I'm happy with the changes (once quirks catch up.) Look at that Wolfhound, it's no longer tiny!

[ScarecrowES]

Weighing in on this after 5 pages, so haven't read the rest but...

Looking at each of the rescales, especially some of the light mech scaling, I was a bit concerned that some mechs weren't done justice... BUT... then I compared those "outlier" rescales with the new full scale sheet and was surprised that none of the mechs that I thought looked "off" in it's own rescale comparison looked off when compared to the full spectrum of mechs.

Seeing all the mechs together, you can definitely tell just by looking at them where they fit on the weight scale. With everything side-by-side, I saw no mechs that looked like they didn't belong exactly where they were.

And that makes me very happy.

[Brandarr Gunnarson]

StaggerCheck, on 17 June 2016 - 05:59 PM, said:

We all knew some changes were coming to many different Mechs, but I cannot help but think that the Panther and Wolfhound were using a template set for 45 tons or something... they BALOONED in size.

Pretty sure they look volumetrically accurate. Remember, most of their size comes from height and their depth is still very shallow. People are going to have to learn to role and turn sideways to their targets.

[Brandarr Gunnarson]

Kanil, on 17 June 2016 - 06:04 PM, said:

in the short term? No, absolutely not. So many 'mechs that didn't deserve to be nerfed just got nerfed.

I look at this from a different perspective: Many 'Mechs have been unfairly benefiting from being too small for a long time.

From that angle, they didn't get nerfed so much as put in their (right) place.

Admittedly, I was surprised by changes like those to my beloved EXE, but I believe this normalization will bring other underlying balance problems to the forefront and allow for them to be addressed more meaningfully.

As long as PGI continues on the path of normalized balance that this change start, I call it good!

[Andi Nagasia]

Trauglodyte, on 17 June 2016 - 06:14 PM, said:

For us Panther (not me, freaking Kurita garbage) and Wolfhound lovers, I'm happy. Those lil buggers got smaller. Yum!!!

Um both Panther and Wolfhound got larger,

[Trauglodyte]

Andi Nagasia, on 17 June 2016 - 06:17 PM, said:

Um both Panther and Wolfhound got larger,

Yeah, I got that backwards. Doesn't really matter, I'm a Cicada driver and have been since Beta. Just means that everything else is on even ground, now. And, really, my Wolfhound has the same load out as my bugs so it was really just something to have for less traffic on drops.

[Davegt27]

Quote

YOUR OVERALL VERDICT OF THE RESCALE?

BFD

[Voq]

To the PGI apologists here... I don't think many people would necessarily argue that the mechs that got dramatically bigger didn't deserve it... per se... We can appreciate that there needs to be some kind of standard to start from before you can do more balancing.
The problem is, in a few situations, the overall outcome is obvious - but we don't see corresponding quirks. On the flipside, in the case of some mechs that were made smaller, you saw instant reduction in their quirks (i.e. Catapults and their structure). Why don't we see the same on the mechs that were made bigger?

Case in point being the Zeus and the Panther. Neither can go toe to toe with the elites in their weight class, and that's not a surprise to anyone, but we're flat on the quirks to compensate. The Zeus isn't an assault, if we're honest. It's a glorified Heavy, and would frequently lose 1v1 against a good number of heavies. So fine... you make it bigger by your metric... but don't want to give it a fighting chance?

And the list goes on with weak mechs being made weaker (as pointed out by many others). But how often do we actually see quirk adjustments? And do we really have to be stuck depending on more quirks? Couldn't a couple of them just be arbitrarily a bit smaller?

I dunno... but I could barely hold my own in my Zeus before. I'm not feeling very optimistic about it (and others) now. Which is a shame, becuase it was one of my favourites despite being considered fairly brittle.

[LT. HARDCASE]

Trauglodyte, on 17 June 2016 - 06:14 PM, said:

For us Panther (not me, freaking Kurita garbage) and Wolfhound lovers, I'm happy. Those lil buggers got smaller. Yum!!!

You may want to look again....

[Y E O N N E]

I just want them to squat the Marauder down like the Catapult and Timberwolf. It's standing really tall and it looks funny in context, now.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 17 June 2016 - 06:27 PM.

[Trauglodyte]

Pariah Devalis, on 17 June 2016 - 05:59 PM, said:

I (mostly) approve of the rescales. Gonna hurt the 35 tonners the most, but... That could be a good thing. 30 ton platforms, let alone 25 ton platforms, will be a lot smaller than their heavier brethren, and as a result harder targets to hit. It increases the benefit of taking a non-35.

Yep! I know that a lot of you (not you, Pariah, just "you" as the community) don't understand this but, as someone that has been in a Cicada since it was released and has had to endure the litany of Light mech buffs and broken OP crap through the years, the new Jenner community is going to feel what I have felt for too long. From having to try to survive Wispsy back when 1 JJ = max JJs to not having JJs like the Jenner to being twice the size of the Jenner, you all have no idea what crutch you were given. You might not like this and, personally, I was hoping the bug would get reduced, but you're now on a level battleground after 4 years of injustice. God love the Commando pilots because their life just got a bit easier and they deserve to have some folks driving them.

The only thing that gets me is that I was hoping that they'd take the Atlas, use that as the volume for 100 tons, and work backwards. What they did was took the Kodiak as the standard and readjusted everything else. Power draw had better be the savior that we're all hoping it is going to be or I predict a very very quick rebalancing of weapons because it is about to get a LOT easier to hit people with weapons.

On the bright side, PPCs kind of got a buff because everything is so much bigger. Now, if you can't hit something that is bigger with a 1250 m/s projectile, you are just bad at this game. Period!

Edited by Trauglodyte, 17 June 2016 - 06:41 PM.

[ScarecrowES]

Voq, on 17 June 2016 - 06:19 PM, said:

To the PGI apologists here... I don't think many people would necessarily argue that the mechs that got dramatically bigger didn't deserve it... per se... We can appreciate that there needs to be some kind of standard to start from before you can do more balancing.
The problem is, in a few situations, the overall outcome is obvious - but we don't see corresponding quirks. On the flipside, in the case of some mechs that were made smaller, you saw instant reduction in their quirks (i.e. Catapults and their structure). Why don't we see the same on the mechs that were made bigger?

Case in point being the Zeus and the Panther. Neither can go toe to toe with the elites in their weight class, and that's not a surprise to anyone, but we're flat on the quirks to compensate. The Zeus isn't an assault, if we're honest. It's a glorified Heavy, and would frequently lose 1v1 against a good number of heavies. So fine... you make it bigger by your metric... but don't want to give it a fighting chance?

And the list goes on with weak mechs being made weaker (as pointed out by many others). But how often do we actually see quirk adjustments? And do we really have to be stuck depending on more quirks? Couldn't a couple of them just be arbitrarily a bit smaller?

I dunno... but I could barely hold my own in my Zeus before. I'm not feeling very optimistic about it (and others) now. Which is a shame, becuase it was one of my favourites despite being considered fairly brittle.

I think expecting to see an instantaneous full quirk pass is a little... erm... premature.

The reality is, certain mechs that had quirks purely to offset scaling problems should expect to have their quirks adjusted on the initial rescale.

However, for everything else, we might want to wait to see exactly how balance is effected before we start throwing quirks around.